Pictures of pitchers feet

[Sweet Lou]

But there are mechanical motions in baseball that can give us the edge over others too, leg lift and tilt / falling action and posture / arm extension / hip shoulder separation / front drive extension / shoulder tilt / arm slots. It's not as easy as just standing up there and throwing, if you want to be any good.

Baseball has rules about the rubber and feet just like softball, but they are enforced in baseball, hands together / separation / quick pitch / pick off stepping / set position / complete stop / when he can/must/can't step on/off the rubber.

I know we beat this dead horse all the time on DFP, but where does the blame need to go? Is it the PC's who teach bad mechanics, is it the coaches who can't see it or don't want to mess with it, is it the umps who don't call it?

I think it is beacuse the leap and drag can very easily become the jump and not drag. It is something that is fairly easy to watch for as parents and they yell bloody murder even when a girl is legal but looks illegal because of the hole that's been dug in front of the pitchers plate.

God forbid their little Suzie strikes out becuase the opposing 10 yo pitcher jumped 2 inches too high.

In baseball, most parents have no idea what is and what isn't a balk or what to even look for so they don't scream about it as much.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

The prevailing attitude toward IP (IMHO) is that if the illegal action is not giving the pitcher an advantage, don't call it. This was certainly preached with regularity in my old umpiring association meetings.

I've seen more girls pitching sidearm this HS season than I ever had - an action that is illegal yet is never called.

I watched a UCLA game the other night (might be the same one described by Indiana) where the UCLA pitcher replanted on EVERY pitch - yet it was never called. And it wasn't subtle either.

It's time for the ladies to be able to pitch like the men - since IPs are rarely being called anyway. And it is a complete disservice to the college pitchers to wait until the WCWS to call IPs if the umpires have ignored them during the regular season.

 

[Comp]

Being nice and telling coaches to fix their pitchers doesnt work. Until you call a pitcher illegal in a game, the coaches will never fix them. I worked a rec league where we were told to just tell the coaches what they needed to fix and not call illegal pitches. I repeatedly told a coach his pitcher was illegal for 4 straight years and he never fixed the problem. She tried to pitch school ball, but if she had an umpire calling her illegal they had to yank her.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

SoCal, this is not directed at you personally, I appreciate your time in the discussion.

But an "advantage" is a judgment call. Let's say Sally is illegal in your first game, she is losing to a better team= no advantage. Next game Sally is using the same illegal mechanics and run ruling a weaker team = that could be called an "advantage".

If its illegal it should be called, advantage shouldnt have anything to do with it. When a blue doesn't call it, all he does is kick the can down the road for another blue to deal with. Then when that blue calls it illegal, people go nuts.

 

[mad hornet]

I don't think baseball is a fair analogy GD. You don't have issues with foot drag, crow hops, or replants in baseball. Almost every time I've ever seen a balk called everybody knew what the infraction was so there wasn't much controversy about it.

I do wish softball umpires would just call the illegal pitches or lets just legalize crow hopping and leaping and be done with it. Most umpires are illegal pitch enablers in my experience.

Agree taking pictures of 10u kids to try and protest is just beyond the pale. I can see using video and photos to help correct your own players but really?????

 

[ms244]

I know before I post this that I am squarely in the minority on this topic. While I do feel that shooting photos of the pitcher's feet is a little creepy, I also feel that if it is a rule in the ASA book, then it needs to be enforced. I posted photos here on this board of a pitcher that was clearly illegal and took a lot of heat on it by a few people. That's fine, I have big shoulders.... For me I don't understand why umpires allow illegal pitches to continue. Like GD stated, in Baseball they don't have a problem calling IP's, but in Fastpitch it is frowned upon? How many here have a bad habit? Most of us, right? So why wouldn't you want help a pitcher break bad habits by enforcing the rules? (umpires). If I hear "not gaining an advantage" one more time.... Show me in the rule book that you can break a rule as long as you don't gain an advantage?

 

[Cannonball]

Illegal is illegal. I don't understand how we've turned into a society that wants to find some grey area here.

Short story (I hope). Know a HS team were two freshmen pitchers showed up and both had great stuff. One was legal all of the time and one was not. The one that was not was allowed to throw illegal until an umpire called it. At that point, that young lady became highly hittable. Umpires were not doing this young lady any favors by looking the other way. This young lady turned in to a head case once the Illegal Pitch was called and so, never threw on the varsity level at all. The other went on to be listed in ESPN Mag. as one of the top Pitchers in my area.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Did you guys really think that the venue recording the whole games was just for the players? You can buy the whole game for $15. HC was telling me last week, that he has been where they provide 8 cameras, and you can purchase one on your DD the whole game.

 

[smddad]

...lets just legalize crow hopping and leaping and be done with it....

Ding, ding, ding, ding. This is exactly what they should do.

Personally, I do not want a repeat of the 2010 WCWS. That wasn't fun to watch. If I want to watch walk-ball, I will go down to our Little League fields and watch a game. IMHO, the IP is holding the game back. Legalize it and move on. We spend way too much time on this subject. Opposing coaches only want it called when they're losing. You don't want the girl pulled who's throwing illegally, but you're tattooing the ball. I could care less if the opposing pitcher is leaping, crow-hopping, stepping on the rubber with hands together or whatever. Let's just play some ball.

Another problem is the penalty. A ball on the batter AND baserunners move up 60'. The moving up 60' is taken from the balk rule. However, this is no balk in softball. The runner cannot leave till the pitch is thrown, therefore there is no disadvantage to the runner. They should stay put. A ball to the batter or the result of the play.

It's about time to update, change or remove these archaic rules. I was hoping that would have came about after the 2010 WCWS debacle.

That's my take on the subject.

Edit to add:

As for the picture takers, they should worry about their own pitchers. 10U is developmental. Put these parents with the dad yelling at the kids behind the backstop and water-torture every one of them.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

SoCal, this is not directed at you personally, I appreciate your time in the discussion.

But an "advantage" is a judgment call. Let's say Sally is illegal in your first game, she is losing to a better team= no advantage. Next game Sally is using the same illegal mechanics and run ruling a weaker team = that could be called an "advantage".

If its illegal it should be called, advantage shouldnt have anything to do with it. When a blue doesn't call it, all he does is kick the can down the road for another blue to deal with. Then when that blue calls it illegal, people go nuts.

No argument from me, GD. This is one of the reasons I haven't umpired in 18 months. I simply got tired of paying all that money to go to rules and mechanics clinics, only to be told not to enforce the rule book. Once DD finishes HS I may go back - but to a different umpire association.