Over the last few years it seems that velocity in pitching has taken a back seat to other aspects of pitching. You see so many people always commenting it’s all about hitting spots and movement. That velocity does not matter or you have to spin it to win it. You are starting to see SEC and other power 5 colleges put girls in the circle not breaking 60. Now I’m not saying velocity is the most important but that it should be worked on the same as location and movement. My DD is in the 8th grade and in middle school ball we might have seen 2-3 pitchers even in the 53+ range. Now she is playing up with high school and in 20 games we have only faced 3 pitchers in the 60’s. This includes some big tournaments with top teams. In travel at 14u at the biggest events in the southeast you can count the girls actually in the 60’s on one hand. Of course half of them claim it on social media! Is winning at 10/12u become so important that the girls are not allowed to develop velocity since you have to throw strikes to win? Are more parents now focusing on the number of pitches instead of velocity development? Is there a shortage of power pitchers that can bring all three velocity, movement and spots? I am a believer in a pitching staff having different style pitchers and different teams require a different look. I’ve seen teams put our senior movement pitcher out before recording an out and then my DD shut them down with power. Or a team get on my DD and the spin pitcher shut them down. Is there a shortage of power pitchers being developed and what effect will that have on the game over the next 3-5 years?
Changing times for pitchers
- Thread starter Agbracing
- Start date
Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch
Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.
Has there ever been a surplus of power pitchers (which I would define as cruising at 65+mph at the college level)? Let alone girls that are above average or superior in all three primary pitch qualities: speed, spin, and spot?
There is a reason why such girls, when they do exist, are highly sought after by top college programs. Perhaps these hard throwers are becoming more common (or will be) as some have argued. I am not so sure. I think young women who fall into this category are--in a relative sense--quite rare. There is a combination of height/weight, physicality, desire, and at least solid mechanics that have to come together to produce that outcome.
Also, it may be the case that the girls who might more fit the physical description are being lured away from the sport by basketball or volleyball. Becoming a good--let alone a great or elite--softball pitcher is very hard as others on this board know better than me. It requires tons of work and a lot of mental strength to get through the inevitable rough patches. As @sluggers or others have mentioned before: In addition to whatever qualities the girl herself needs to possess (including a strong desire to pitch), you probably need at least one crazy parent involved who is willing to do all the work with her and oversee her progression and development. For my DD, unfortunately that is me. LOL.
There is a reason why such girls, when they do exist, are highly sought after by top college programs. Perhaps these hard throwers are becoming more common (or will be) as some have argued. I am not so sure. I think young women who fall into this category are--in a relative sense--quite rare. There is a combination of height/weight, physicality, desire, and at least solid mechanics that have to come together to produce that outcome.
Also, it may be the case that the girls who might more fit the physical description are being lured away from the sport by basketball or volleyball. Becoming a good--let alone a great or elite--softball pitcher is very hard as others on this board know better than me. It requires tons of work and a lot of mental strength to get through the inevitable rough patches. As @sluggers or others have mentioned before: In addition to whatever qualities the girl herself needs to possess (including a strong desire to pitch), you probably need at least one crazy parent involved who is willing to do all the work with her and oversee her progression and development. For my DD, unfortunately that is me. LOL.
Same as always - don't believe ESPN's speed guns at softball. And don't think what you see on TV is reflective of the rest of college softball. You are mostly seeing the 1%
Honestly - there are more pitchers than ever who can get really bring it even in the programs you see on TV.... however the demand for them has gone through the roof.
The Power 5 conferences - even 10 years ago it was really only the PAC10 that REALLY cared about softball across the whole conference with a few dominant other programs in other conferences (for example Michigan, Oklahoma, FSU, Florida, etc, etc). Now pretty much ALL the Power 5 conferences care across all their teams - and add in 'staffs' versus 'workhorses' and you have gone from somewhere in the 15-20 teams wanting the top talent to close to 55-60 teams who are aggressively recruiting it.
Demand has exceeded supply (even though the actual supply numbers have increased) so the 'best' are spread out over more teams. Even for the big programs - what used to be their #2 or #3 pitcher now has the option to be the #1 someplace else just as visible/good so your #2 is now someone previously you might now have recruited.
And once you get out of the power 5, the # of college softball teams has been steadily growing (ignoring any COVID effect which most likely will be temporary) so demand is way up there as well. The schools that 'care' about softball in the lower divisions grab the best out there of the remaining demand who are not going to Power 5 for whatever reason (often not softball related) - and they can dominate in their conference - and then there are teams who just don't have pitching.
Honestly - there are more pitchers than ever who can get really bring it even in the programs you see on TV.... however the demand for them has gone through the roof.
The Power 5 conferences - even 10 years ago it was really only the PAC10 that REALLY cared about softball across the whole conference with a few dominant other programs in other conferences (for example Michigan, Oklahoma, FSU, Florida, etc, etc). Now pretty much ALL the Power 5 conferences care across all their teams - and add in 'staffs' versus 'workhorses' and you have gone from somewhere in the 15-20 teams wanting the top talent to close to 55-60 teams who are aggressively recruiting it.
Demand has exceeded supply (even though the actual supply numbers have increased) so the 'best' are spread out over more teams. Even for the big programs - what used to be their #2 or #3 pitcher now has the option to be the #1 someplace else just as visible/good so your #2 is now someone previously you might now have recruited.
And once you get out of the power 5, the # of college softball teams has been steadily growing (ignoring any COVID effect which most likely will be temporary) so demand is way up there as well. The schools that 'care' about softball in the lower divisions grab the best out there of the remaining demand who are not going to Power 5 for whatever reason (often not softball related) - and they can dominate in their conference - and then there are teams who just don't have pitching.
I think that as parents become more involved with a pitchers development, it's easier to equate # of pitches they [think they] can throw with success / improvement. Especially for parents who don't have the tallest / biggest girl on the roster, where often (but not always), at the younger ages, size = speed. With the need to justify all the $$$ people pay for private instruction, bragging "my daughter throws 4 different pitches" sounds better than "my daughter can hit her spots".
I'm early in the 12U journey, and as a coach it's a balancing act for sure. It's been discussed many times in other threads - the game needs more pitchers, but how do you develop them? They need circle time - but there's also 8 or 9 other players on the field that would like to play "real" softball before high school. Is it fair to them to endure walk after walk after hit batter in 10U? They may not want to wait until 12U or 14U just to get a good pitch to hit.
Pitchers need to learn to work themselves out of a jam, but in a tournament setting, how many walks is too many? We don't have the best hitters, so getting down 5 runs early is too big a hole to climb out of for us. We're trying to use a total of 3 BB's/HBP each inning as a gauge of when to pull a pitcher. When you throw strikes, you give the rest of the team a chance to make a play. Not finding the plate b/c you're constantly told to "just throw it hard" effectively removes all the other fielders from the game. But - even at 12U-C, finding too much of the plate turns into BP.
Rather than a balancing act, perhaps juggling act is the better term?
- Jun 20, 2015
- 851
- 93
several points:
#1 at certain point velocity over rides spin and the ball simply does not have enough time to spin and cause movement. Many elite pitchers have been known to "throttle back' max velo to allow the ball to have time to spin and move.
#2. Many social media and / or FB postings are embellishing velos. OR using the 1 fluke measurement as the speed pitcher X throws at.
#1 at certain point velocity over rides spin and the ball simply does not have enough time to spin and cause movement. Many elite pitchers have been known to "throttle back' max velo to allow the ball to have time to spin and move.
#2. Many social media and / or FB postings are embellishing velos. OR using the 1 fluke measurement as the speed pitcher X throws at.
This is part of the discussion I was hoping to get started. It is no fun for a walk fest. And throwing strikes is more beneficial to the team in a tournament setting. And with such a decline of rec ball more and more girls are starting out in some form of tournament play. I’m wondering if that is having a negative effect on pitching long term. If girls are taught to just throw strikes at 10/12 then as they get older when they try to add more velocity they often get wild and at the older age groups you definitely do not get the extra time to figure it out. Are the bigger girls that take longer to develop that have the potential to be the best in the end getting discouraged from pitching and moving to other sports or positions? I often think pitchers fall into one of two categories. Then need just circle time to learn how to become a pitcher or they need fewer innings but against better competition. And they can go back and forth between these two categories. In 5 years from now are we going to have fewer power style pitchers then available now due to the you have to throw strikes. Hitters are becoming better and stronger. Home runs are being hit at a record pace. You have 14/15 yr olds that can hit a ball 200ft off a tee. Will hitters continue to get more dominant over the next 5 years as the landscape of pitching changes? It’s just something I’ve thought about and curious to hear other’s opinions.
With #1 at some point I agree that velocity can over power movement. But over the years there have been many pitchers dominating around 70. So I would think in that range it is still very possible. I know there was a thing that went around with pitching velocities for different college levels. And power 5 was 65+ or something. I don’t think that is the average for power 5 anymore. I would say it’s more 62/63 now.
#2 is so very true. A pitchers speed is cruising speed in game to batters throwing strikes or hitting spots. With it being so easy to check a girls speed at games it just seems foolish to exaggerate the way some do. I’d rather tell you a speed and you see the same or faster. Then expect on thing and see it real life much slower.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have to disagree with #1. You will hear pitchers talk about "throwing through their spin", but that is due to over-throwing and losing their mechanics. There are certainly hard throwers who don't know how to spin the ball properly because they've never needed to depend on it, but when they know how to do both the ball just spins faster and moves even more sharply. If you've seen an elite pitcher spin the ball well at 67-70 it's something to behold. There may be certain pitches that they back off a little for a change of speed, but if they know how to spin at top speed the movement is incredible. #2 is certainly true. There just aren't that many 14yo throwing 66mph but social media would have you believe otherwise.
