Never seen this. Digging hole in pitcher's circle

[arthurdent]

It was a crater! High school baseball player as umpire. The coaches and parent of the pitcher raised enough ruckus the young umpire was intimidated. I was watching the game with no skin in the outcome. It was the last championship game of the weekend. I would have asked for the tournament director's presence and ruling. There were a lot of testosterone-inflamed emotions occurring. The mother of the digging pitcher came over to scream at the opposing side's parents.

I thought the other team was gracious. Their pitcher stride was long enough to get over the hole. Luckily a come-backer was not hit forcing that pitcher into the hole. I have seen shortstops field a ball "in the hole" but never a pitcher.

I am/was curious if there are State Association, ASA, or NSAA rules addressing playing field grooming by coaches or players.

 

[arthurdent]

I've seen some crappy fields, I guess I could buy an argument where it's better to just dig out a solid spot rather than trying to fill in with whatever loose dirt you can scrape over with your shoe, but if it was relatively flat? what's even the point? When they don't have a good delivery they already roll it a bunch, what happens now, hits the pit?


this is an aside, but it's a related thought..when there is a big hole in front of the pitching plate, do we think it might be beneficial to have the pitcher pitch with heel against it, versus the 'normal' heel on/toes in front stuff? Or would that throw them off too much? (specifically new/10u type pitchers)

True the foot can be braced downward. Pitching accurately with power requires a great deal of balance. I think an inexperienced pitcher has greater control issues/mechanics than a hole presents. A further developed pitcher skills may be demoted. The hole in the front of the pitching plate is probably easier for her to overcome than a hole at the landing spot of her initial drive foot.

I was really embarrassed by the coaches and parents of the excavators. The 10/11-year-old pitcher's innocence was evident. I think she was coached to dig the hole to improve her performance.

Enough rant, Does Anyone know of specific rule(s) governing the situation?

 

[Vertigo]

I guess I’m confused as to why they needed the trench dug? Pitchers can leap now. It should have stopped this nonsense.

 

[arthurdent]

I guess I’m confused as to why they needed the trench dug. Pitchers can leap now. It should have stopped this nonsense.

Improper coaching. If the pitcher drags her foot perpendicular to the throwing direction it may appear the ground is preventing hip rotation. In reality, the hip not initially closing is the reason for the improper foot drag.

 

[inumpire]

We were at a 10u softball tourney. 35-foot plate to rubber distance. An entering pitcher and coach groomed the area in front of the pitcher's plate by actively DIGGING a hole the width of the rubber x 4" deep x 24" long. 4' deep is known as a ball placed in the hole completely disappeared from view. Before the "grooming the pitching lane was flat and firm. I assume the pitcher had issues with the incorrect dragging of her trail foot as she stepped off the rubber.

The umpire asked for a rake and filled the hole. The "digging" coaches immediately came out and re-opened the hole. They said the pitcher needed it to remain that deep. The opposing pitcher was left to deal with the hole or the very soft dirt re-collected in the hole!

When any players grooms the field how aggressive is appropriate and what actions would clash with the spirit of the game? Specific rulings or the umpire's discretion? What recourse, if any, does the lead Umpire have?

I ask this to understand the theory and as a field maintenance person. I understand the "normal wear and tear" of the playing field, but? Diamond clay is not free.

I am thinking that the coach that does this will probably not be around to see it filled in and we play the game. Speaking as an umpire.

 

[bsbs]

It was a crater! High school baseball player as umpire. The coaches and parent of the pitcher raised enough ruckus the young umpire was intimidated. I was watching the game with no skin in the outcome. It was the last championship game of the weekend. I would have asked for the tournament director's presence and ruling. There were a lot of testosterone-inflamed emotions occurring. The mother of the digging pitcher came over to scream at the opposing side's parents.

I thought the other team was gracious. Their pitcher stride was long enough to get over the hole. Luckily a come-backer was not hit forcing that pitcher into the hole. I have seen shortstops field a ball "in the hole" but never a pitcher.

I am/was curious if there are State Association, ASA, or NSAA rules addressing playing field grooming by coaches or players.

It kind of sounds like she was just moving dust around. A 10u girl isn't excavating a decent pitchers lane. At the end of a tournament most pitcher's circles are terrible.

 

[Comp]

How long did they spend digging this hole? The pitcher has 1 minute to throw not more than 5 warm up pitches between innings. If the pitcher taking her 1 minute digging holes she doesn't get any warm up pitches. And if she isn't ready after the one minute start issuing balls to the batter every 20 seconds.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I'll take a different view than my Blue Brethren, though I don't disagree with anything they have said.

Is there a rule saying that they cannot do that? Technically, no. However there is a rule we can use to tell them to knock it off or they can take the rest of the day off.

Yes, some pitchers will naturally dig a trench over the course of the game. Yes, some pitchers will actively try to fill that back in. I'm allowing that because it is a natural course of the game. (Yes, I have had coaches complain about the trench from other pitchers, but I can't tell them not to do that.)

However . . . Come out on the field and proactively try to create an unsafe situation by vandalizing the field? No, not doing that on my field, coach. Are we going to let them dig a hole in front of first base to try to throw off a runner's stride or break their ankle?

No, we aren't allowing any Swamp Fox shenanigans. I suppose we could declare the field unfit to play on and collect our check and leave. (No, I am not advocating for that.)

 

[arthurdent]

I'll take a different view than my Blue Brethren, though I don't disagree with anything they have said.

Is there a rule saying that they cannot do that? Technically, no. However there is a rule we can use to tell them to knock it off or they can take the rest of the day off.

Yes, some pitchers will naturally dig a trench over the course of the game. Yes, some pitchers will actively try to fill that back in. I'm allowing that because it is a natural course of the game. (Yes, I have had coaches complain about the trench from other pitchers, but I can't tell them not to do that.)

However . . . Come out on the field and proactively try to create an unsafe situation by vandalizing the field? No, not doing that on my field, coach. Are we going to let them dig a hole in front of first base to try to throw off a runner's stride or break their ankle?

No, we aren't allowing any Swamp Fox shenanigans. I suppose we could declare the field unfit to play on and collect our check and leave. (No, I am not advocating for that.)

I am in complete agreement! Pitching lanes get beat up during the course of a tourney. I get that. And no "vandalism" does not bother me.part of the game! I have never seen a hole so deep and wide. They took the narrow normal trench and rubbed at the sides to loosen more dirt and expand it. During the change of innings the coach ran out and "manicured" then the pitcher did digging between each pitch.

 

[CoachCeetar]

It's crap like this that makes towns/rec depts make rules that coaches aren't allowed to rake/drag/touch fields