NCAA Slapper rules are unfair

[benjey]

If you want to mention other sports, name one other sport that still considers a player to be "in bounds" if part of their foot is on the line while the rest/majority of it is out of bounds.

Totally agree but those other sports are internally consistent. None of them say when the ball hits the line it is in bounds but when a player steps on the line it is out of bounds. And they certainly don't say if you are on defense and step on the line you are in bounds but on offense you are out of bounds if you step on the line.

That is really my whole point. I gave the thread that argumentative title to get people talking but really my problem with the rule is the inconsistency that seems illogical to me.

 

[CoachJD]

If you want to mention other sports, name one other sport that still considers a player to be "in bounds" if part of their foot is on the line while the rest/majority of it is out of bounds.

The only one I can think of that would be comparable is volleyball (NFHS, anyway, I don't work other codes). A player can be across the center line as long as they are TOUCHING the center line. The fun part of that rule is that if they lift up the part of the foot ON the line, but if part of the foot is across the line and the rest is above the line, it is a violation, even if the foot does not move on the plane of the court. There are what you call inconsistencies there also ... players must be entirely INSIDE the lines at the time of the serve, but a ball that just catches the line is still in.

If you want to compare to other softball codes, who says the other codes have it right? Personally, I think the other codes have it wrong. Why are we giving the batter a running start AND extra 6+ inches of space? The pitcher cannot get a running start and replant 6 inches closer to the plate.

My opinion, as an umpire, is that it is FAR easier for me to tell if a foot is entirely inside the box than if all of it was outside the box. Still not easy with everything I am watching for, but easier.

I don't think you can find a consistent lines in/out across sports.

The line is in in baseball, softball, volleyball, tennis, soccer.

The line is out in basketball and football.

Hockey is a bit more difficult with offside, but that's not a boundary line really. The puck does have to completely cross the goal line though (and in football, the nose of the ball only has to cross the very front of the goal line to count).

But here's the thing: In all the sports where line = in, if even a fraction of a centimeter of whatever is touching the line and the rest is out, it's in. And that's why the rule makes no sense.

The only comparable rule in baseball/softball I can think of is the rule that all fielders (other than the catcher) must be in fair territory at the time of the pitch. I interpret this to mean that as long as neither foot is completely in foul territory, it's legal, since touching the line is, by definition, in fair territory (the rules don't say something like "no part of the body can be touching foul territory).

I think the other codes have it right because consistency is important. Because "in" has a definition in the sport, and it's illogical to give it a different definition in one single instance. The comparison to hitting and pitching is honestly so absurd I don't even know where to begin to respond. They're two different acts. In most sports, the team that controls the action with the ball is more limited in how they're allowed to start than the team that's reacting. There's a simple fairness aspect to the concept of a game that dictates that.

I don't understand how it's easier to tell if the whole foot is in the box (which includes the lines) or if the whole foot is outside the box, assuming the lines are all good. I believe that's how it is for you, but I can't see how that's possible. Again, in every other instance of judging this sort of thing, it's WAY easier to say "that ball was completely out" than "well, part of the ball landed outside the line, so it's out."

 

[Strike2]

The penalty isn't the same in NCAA softball. In HS and youth ball, the batter is out every time. In NCAA, it's a delayed dead ball, and the defensive coach has option of result of play or strike on batter. It's a fair compromise.

 

[_MIA_]

@ncassrulescommitteememberonDFP

 

[Nimrod]

Totally agree but those other sports are internally consistent. None of them say when the ball hits the line it is in bounds but when a player steps on the line it is out of bounds. And they certainly don't say if you are on defense and step on the line you are in bounds but on offense you are out of bounds if you step on the line.

That is really my whole point. I gave the thread that argumentative title to get people talking but really my problem with the rule is the inconsistency that seems illogical to me.

In tennis, if you hit a ball on the line, it's in. If you step on the line while serving, it's out. The rules are different depending on whether the situation involves a ball or a player.

That's very similar to the new softball rule. If a softball hits the foul line or foul pole, it's fair. If a pitched ball nicks the strike zone, it's a strike. But when it comes to telling players where they can legally be, the rules are different.

And the difference isn't simply because one involves the ball and the other involves a player. One rule aims to judge whether a player has achieved an objective (strike, fair ball) while the other rule aims to judge whether a player is getting a competitive advantage.

 

[benjey]

while the other rule aims to judge whether a player is getting a competitive advantage.

Tennis is a good example I hadn't thought of though I would still say that is the exception rather then the rule and it still doesn't account for the difference in the pitcher stepping on the line vs the batter.

 

[Agcy]

So I think what I am hearing is that the line of the batter's box should be 'out' and that the hitters (power and slappers) need to keep their whole foot inside of it? If you even so much as touch the line during your at bat you are penalized.

 

[Nasolis]

I think some people are getting confused on the rule (definition of the batter's box from NCAA standpoint).

See rule 2.8 - "The batter’s box is the area to which the batter is restricted when at bat. The boxes, one on each side of home plate, shall measure 3 feet by 7 feet, including the lines. The outer edge of the lines of the batter’s box shall be 6 inches from home plate. The front line of each box shall be 4 feet in front of a line drawn through the center of home plate. The four lines must be drawn. (See diagram at end of rule.)"

From this the lines are in. However, if a toe is outside of the line on contact, then yes, they are outside of the box. If their toe is on the line, they are in inside the box. This is an illegally batted ball the full penalty and rule is 11.15.1 in the NCAA rule book.

 

[SBmom8992]

200' fences in the NCAA are a joke. My HS field has 220' fences. The bases might slow the game down too much and make it more like baseball.

DD played at a D2 school this fall with fences that were 190’ down the line with a ton of grass behind the fence meaning it wasn’t a space issue. I’m glad she was able to keep the ball in the park that day.


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[radness]

Here is information from a post I bumped in the Practical hitting forum