"natural arm movement of the player"

[sluggers]

"go off the natural arm movement of the player.

If they feel what they are currently doing does not work then they will look to change. If what they are already doing is effective they will stick with it especially if the player is older."

I think it effectively communicates that the PC doesn't know what s/he is doing.

"Natural arm movement"...there is nothing natural about accelerating your hand to 60+ MPH.

 

[newb]

Had a similar situation with DD as a first-year 12U. After reading about I/R here, I went out and found a Tincher certified instructor for her.

Over the winter break, HC arranged for a local HE coach to come and do team lessons.

Sounds pretty similar to our situation. Her original PC went on leave and in doing research learned about I/R and also found a Tincher instructor (online).

In our case it is the association we're affiliated with that has arranged for the PC lessons. I'm not viewing this as a team coaching issue. Just that the team is planning to go because it's been arranged/paid for by the association. Based on what I've seen, there's a lot of H/E around here.

I think it effectively communicates that the PC doesn't know what s/he is doing.

"Natural arm movement"...there is nothing natural about accelerating your hand to 60+ MPH.

Part of me wonders if there's still value in going and if there is something that can be learned. I've never been a pitcher, there must be something learned from the experience of being a pitcher in the past, right?

That said, if there isn't an understanding of I/R and H/E is still taught what else is flawed in the approach?

 

[Northball]

...there's a lot of H/E around here.

Part of me wonders if there's still value in going and if there is something that can be learned. I've never been a pitcher, there must be something learned from the experience of being a pitcher in the past, right?

That said, if there isn't an understanding of I/R and H/E is still taught what else is flawed in the approach?

My DD is done. She started with not very pronounced H/E, then morphed over to I/R. Knowing what I know now, if I were in your shoes I would stay away if they are going to work on mechanics and ingrain H/E. If they want to talk situations and strategy that's another story.
Teaching H/E IS the flaw. Palm behind the ball as it goes down the arm circle and passes the hips, believing the ball will be released at a consistent point, believing the wrist will snap at the right instant to put unbelievable spin on the ball, hips wide open to 3rd base to allow the arm to clear without touching anything, and that goofy follow through that doesn't happen until long after the ball is released are all characteristics of H/E.
H/E can get the job done, but I/R gets it done much better.

 

[Northball]

"Natural arm movement"...there is nothing natural about accelerating your hand to 60+ MPH.

Accidentally touching the electric fence when I was a kid might have accelerated my hand to 60 mph. Probably doesn't qualify as natural, though.

 

[sluggers]

Part of me wonders if there's still value in going and if there is something that can be learned. I've never been a pitcher, there must be something learned from the experience of being a pitcher in the past, right?

That is a really intelligent question.

Absolutely. There's lots she can learn. E.g.:

1) Mental approach to pitching.
2) Change up
3) The riseball
4) Lower body mechanics.

You have to understand the IR motion. And, if she starts moving away from it, you have to fix it. It's not that difficult, but you have to monitor it. When you throw outside of practice, you want to work on IR basics. There is a thread called IR in the Classroom that will help you.

Take slow-motion videos and make sure the hand is behind the ball at 12 and under the ball at 9.

 

[newb]

That is a really intelligent question.

Absolutely. There's lots she can learn. E.g.:

1) Mental approach to pitching.
2) Change up
3) The riseball
4) Lower body mechanics.

You have to understand the IR motion. And, if she starts moving away from it, you have to fix it. It's not that difficult, but you have to monitor it. When you throw outside of practice, you want to work on IR basics. There is a thread called IR in the Classroom that will help you.

Take slow-motion videos and make sure the hand is behind the ball at 12 and under the ball at 9.

Thank you.

I've been reading and we've been trying to implement the information from both the IR in the Classroom and Drive Mechanics threads. It's part of the reason I posted, the thoughts of HE creeping back makes me nervous.

Teaching H/E IS the flaw. Palm behind the ball as it goes down the arm circle and passes the hips, believing the ball will be released at a consistent point, believing the wrist will snap at the right instant to put unbelievable spin on the ball, hips wide open to 3rd base to allow the arm to clear without touching anything, and that goofy follow through that doesn't happen until long after the ball is released are all characteristics of H/E.
H/E can get the job done, but I/R gets it done much better.

I'm feeling the same way.

 

[LW23]

Part of me wonders if there's still value in going and if there is something that can be learned. I've never been a pitcher, there must be something learned from the experience of being a pitcher in the past, right?

We ran into a similar situation Freshman year of high school. We started with IR and DD had been very successful. The HC pitched in college and was successful. She didn't use HE but had a totally different style. Initially she wanted to change DD over to that style. We met and discussed it and stayed the course knowing we were headed in the right direction. To the quote above she has helped DD tremendously with the change and does offer good feedback when little things pop up. So it may be possible to learn something from them.

 

[radness]

We ran into a similar situation Freshman year of high school. We started with IR and DD had been very successful. The HC pitched in college and was successful. She didn't use HE but had a totally different style. Initially she wanted to change DD over to that style. We met and discussed it and stayed the course knowing we were headed in the right direction. To the quote above she has helped DD tremendously with the change and does offer good feedback when little things pop up.

So it may be possible to learn something from them.

_____________________________
_____________________________

Being coachable is an important aspect of being an athlete.
Learning to listen, watch and apply is also important to being an athlete.
It doesn't mean you have to change your path on what you're doing to go experience something new a few times. Meaning~ It is not as if you are signing a contract to do it the rest of your career.

Will put it this way~ there are hitters who are already successful who will go to college camps they are interested in playing for the college. And the college may ask them to change something in their hitting mechanic. ( during the camp visit)
If that player is truly interested in going to that college, they pretty much darn well better be able to try the new mechanic suggestion!

 

[Fluid Fastpitch]

Had a similar situation with my daughter where the org brought back a recent grad who is pitching at a D1 to run some clinics. I went and took my daughter, told her to go ahead and try the drills; we'll have a conversation about what feels right and is more efficient after. You never know where you're going to hear something that might make sense. That said, the 2nd clinic we got a little ballsy and started being like "those wrist snaps are cool and all, let us show you our style." Of course this girl had never heard of I/R or considered that she was actually doing that in her motion. I decided to be 'that person' and took slow mo to show her how she throws with I/R with beautiful brush and all. All she said was that she had room to improve - she could get more open and snap harder.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Part of me wonders if there's still value in going and if there is something that can be learned. I've never been a pitcher, there must be something learned from the experience of being a pitcher in the past, right?

When your DD is older (and her foundation is set) I would encourage her to seek out other pitching coaches that used to pitch. Ask the coaches what their best pitch was and ask them to show you how to throw it. Go to lessons for a few weeks and then move on. That was one of the best experiences for my daughter, we met some great people that loved to talk about their best pitch and their pitching experiences.

You can learn something from any past player in my experience.