"natural arm movement of the player"

[Ken B]

@amandascarborough,
In the above article, you mentioned getting your hips out of the way for release. Can you say more about that? Thanks!

 

[radness]

Here's some comments on hips






Simply keeping the discussion going

 

[wheresmycar]

IR or internal rotation is a kinesiology term, describing the rotation of the arm.

Definition: Internal rotation is rotating a joint towards the midline

On this board, it has become pseudonym for an entire pitching motion (palm up at 9:00/IR through release/palm down finish)... I think it's confusing to outsiders who initially (and correctly IMHO) interpret IR in the Kinesiology context. Or, they have no idea what it is, and just assume it's a widely accepted pitching style.

If you limit yourself to pitching instructors who use terminology coined on this board, you are going to exclude a lot of really good pitching instructors.

If you want to determine if a pitching instructor teaches a motion with "Internal Rotation", simply ask them for a fastball, should the palm be up/down at 9:00 position?

Palm up = Internal Rotation
Palm down = Pushing ball with no IR

On the Dark side "HE" (aka Hello Elbow or High Elbow) on this board describes an entire pitching motion (Palm down at 9:00/pushing ball through release/high elbow finish). When out in the world, High Elbow describes a finish (what the arm/hand does after release). You can be Palm Up at 9:00, internally rotate through release, AND finish with a High elbow. Many of the best pitchers in the world pitch this way. Amanda Scarborough comes to mind...

Personally, I believe any time spent teaching what the hand/arm does after release is a complete waste of valuable instruction time.

So, back to the OP's questions about "Natural Arm Movement".... You asked the pitching instructor about "teaching I/R". They probably assumed you are talking about "internal rotation of the arm", which is a "natural arm movement". You are using "IR" in the discussfastpitch context, so you are likely not speaking the same language as the instructor. That doesn't necessarily make them a bad instructor, just means they don't frequent "Discussfastpitch.com".

 

[ArmWhip]

Here is a great presentation of the 'natural arm movement". Nice and simple. He just left out the 'snap your wrist' part.

 

[newb]

IR or internal rotation is a kinesiology term, describing the rotation of the arm.

Definition: Internal rotation is rotating a joint towards the midline

On this board, it has become pseudonym for an entire pitching motion (palm up at 9:00/IR through release/palm down finish)... I think it's confusing to outsiders who initially (and correctly IMHO) interpret IR in the Kinesiology context. Or, they have no idea what it is, and just assume it's a widely accepted pitching style.

If you limit yourself to pitching instructors who use terminology coined on this board, you are going to exclude a lot of really good pitching instructors.

If you want to determine if a pitching instructor teaches a motion with "Internal Rotation", simply ask them for a fastball, should the palm be up/down at 9:00 position?

Palm up = Internal Rotation
Palm down = Pushing ball with no IR

On the Dark side "HE" (aka Hello Elbow or High Elbow) on this board describes an entire pitching motion (Palm down at 9:00/pushing ball through release/high elbow finish). When out in the world, High Elbow describes a finish (what the arm/hand does after release). You can be Palm Up at 9:00, internally rotate through release, AND finish with a High elbow. Many of the best pitchers in the world pitch this way. Amanda Scarborough comes to mind...

Personally, I believe any time spent teaching what the hand/arm does after release is a complete waste of valuable instruction time.

So, back to the OP's questions about "Natural Arm Movement".... You asked the pitching instructor about "teaching I/R". They probably assumed you are talking about "internal rotation of the arm", which is a "natural arm movement". You are using "IR" in the discussfastpitch context, so you are likely not speaking the same language as the instructor. That doesn't necessarily make them a bad instructor, just means they don't frequent "Discussfastpitch.com".

There's been a few posts regarding not knowing for sure what the instructor is teaching. Which is fair. The thing is my daughter saw this exact instructor just over a year ago a handful of times and HE is what was taught. Palm to second at 9 wrist snap, elbow up. She didn't call it HE, the instructor taught what she knew.

Some later questions confirmed that she was unfamiliar with the I/R term but also unfamiliar with the H/E term. I'm identifying the teaching not by the label but by the mechanics taught.

I reached out to the facility regarding I/R to see if any of the instructors were familiar. So, although others may be, the instructor the team is seeing I know teaches H/E.

 

[newb]

There's been a few posts regarding not knowing for sure what the instructor is teaching. Which is fair. The thing is my daughter saw this exact instructor just over a year ago a handful of times and HE is what was taught. Palm to second at 9 wrist snap, elbow up. She didn't call it HE, the instructor taught what she knew.

Some later questions confirmed that she was unfamiliar with the I/R term but also unfamiliar with the H/E term. I'm identifying the teaching not by the label but by the mechanics taught.

I reached out to the facility regarding I/R to see if any of the instructors were familiar. So, although others may be, the instructor the team is seeing I know teaches H/E.

I should add, when I first posted I didn't know for sure who at the facility the team would be seeing. I've since confirmed.

 

[radness]

IR or internal rotation is a kinesiology term, describing the rotation of the arm.

Definition: Internal rotation is rotating a joint towards the midline

On this board, it has become pseudonym for an entire pitching motion (palm up at 9:00/IR through release/palm down finish)... I think it's confusing to outsiders who initially (and correctly IMHO) interpret IR in the Kinesiology context. Or, they have no idea what it is, and just assume it's a widely accepted pitching style.

If you limit yourself to pitching instructors who use terminology coined on this board, you are going to exclude a lot of really good pitching instructors.

If you want to determine if a pitching instructor teaches a motion with "Internal Rotation", simply ask them for a fastball, should the palm be up/down at 9:00 position?

Palm up = Internal Rotation
Palm down = Pushing ball with no IR

On the Dark side "HE" (aka Hello Elbow or High Elbow) on this board describes an entire pitching motion (Palm down at 9:00/pushing ball through release/high elbow finish). When out in the world, High Elbow describes a finish (what the arm/hand does after release). You can be Palm Up at 9:00, internally rotate through release, AND finish with a High elbow. Many of the best pitchers in the world pitch this way. Amanda Scarborough comes to mind...

Personally, I believe any time spent teaching what the hand/arm does after release is a complete waste of valuable instruction time.

So, back to the OP's questions about "Natural Arm Movement".... You asked the pitching instructor about "teaching I/R". They probably assumed you are talking about "internal rotation of the arm", which is a "natural arm movement". You are using "IR" in the discussfastpitch context, so you are likely not speaking the same language as the instructor. That doesn't necessarily make them a bad instructor, just means they don't frequent "Discussfastpitch.com".

Excellent read!

 

[Rolling Hard]

to ..the kid is 11

Ingrained mechanics are very difficult to change. If the player is at a college camp I am going to assume she been playing softball for 7 plus years. Not sure changing mechanics during a camp is realistic task.

 

[_MIA_]

Ingrained mechanics are very difficult to change. If the player is at a college camp I am going to assume she been playing softball for 7 plus years. Not sure changing mechanics during a camp is realistic task.

My comment had nothing to do with whether a change, valid or not, would be successful but instead was talking about the mental aspect of being confronted with it..

 

[radness]

My comment had nothing to do with whether a change, valid or not, would be successful but instead was talking about the mental aspect of being confronted with it..

Think that's a really good point that you are making!!!

Players are confronted with those situations. Could be happening at very young ages.
Even happening between the coaches on their same teams. Certainly happening when they go to a new team. Opposite/ differing approaches of mechanics.

That is one of the reasons why I was suggesting going and learning to listen and try can help learn how to handle these types of situations.