Less Travel teams?

[D.G. OutLaws 16u]

Less Travel teams?
I have been away from the forum a while, Got roped into Coaching Two Basketball teams. But I went to Schedule LL Softball A few days ago and I have never seen so many Coaches and adminastrators for Softball ever.

I started asking about the huge no. of teams poping up all the sudden and the answer was simple. They all said that ASA travel ball was losing numbers due to the extreme cost. And alot of kids are sighning up for LL.
Is this the case where your at?
Should make an interesting season. I am only Coaching HS this year but will Umoire the LL games So I will get to see the result.

wild man,
In western burbs of Chicago. I'm on the local Park Dist Board, this year for the 1st time we're seeing a decrease not only in our girls softball program but the youth baseball as well. Actually our numbers are slightly down in all our summer programs. Looking at our school dist numbers a simple conclusion was drawn that the ratio flowing through fluctuates in cycles. Im sure the economys a big culprit, we've had familys applying for fee assistance in record numbers.
In the past girls softball had been a very robust program due to a few nearby Park Dists not having a girls softball program until this year. Instead of having 6-8 teams in each age level, keeping everything in-house, we are down to around 3 teams per age with 10u and tee ball at 1. Being proactive each Park Dist decided to join forces and expand the season to a mini-travel league. Everyone involved is very excited and hope this is a trend of even bigger and better opportunities.
TB in our area has exploded with new teams popping up each year. Im not a fan of this as the level of cometitions been watered down. New tournaments and teams available run by greedy clueless newbies. Even worse is too many kids and family's convinced to joining a club thinking they will be given D1 rides.
IMO I attribute this to the fact that female athletics is a popular thing to be in!! No more stereotypes! Most young girls now expect be in athletics. Being a 'girly-girl' and a jock is giving our girls so much confidence. The way the world is going I'm comforted knowing my DD has the mental and physical skills to never have to 'settle' for what life throws at her. The choices and opportunities are endless.....

 

[MsDinosaur]

DD's team plays primarily ASA, but we did enter the local USSSA Halloween tournament this fall. It was fun, with free admitance, a bounce house, costumes, dugout decorating and other contests. The extra fun came at a price; the entry fee was about $100-150 more expensive than our usual ASA tournaments.

The ASA contests are more bare-bones: just softball, no game mvp medals during pool play, no extra contests/events and they make the fans pay gate fees. As a once-a-season thing, it was a blast, but I think we'd get too spoiled if we played USSSA very much, LOL!

 

[MTR]

Same way the 'World Series' only has teams from one country

Not to mention the NCAA baseball and softball championships which claim the designation "World Series", but enough about the arrogance of Americans.

 

[MTR]

Historically:

The ASA in the early 1990s had an awful tournament system--the national tournament qualifiers and the nations were all double-elimination only with NO pool play. So...about 40% of the teams played 2 games and went home. It was pathetic. And, the ASA didn't care how much anyone complained about it, because "that is the way it was always done".

And it still is in SP. To me it has never been hard to understand the Championship Play of ASA's mission of maintaining a path to a national championship, not a showcase, not a vacation plan, etc.

It wasn't until the almightly carrot became the big time target and selling point to draw players to particular organizations that this became an issue.

The ASA countered with the 18U Gold classification and the amazing "Regional Nationals"...(Exactly how is a Northern Region tournament a national tournament? How about having an "Idaho National"? Or a Cook County National Tournament? But, I digress...)

The softball community asked for an Elite division. They got it and then promptly saturated it and complained about that. Teams couldn't all afford to travel to a national, so zones, then territorial "national tournaments" to give these teams someplace to play in August. BTW, other organizations do the same thing, so I don't see your point.

Right now, there are a million daddy-daughter teams, and every daddy-daughter team thinks they are entitled to go to a "national" championship tournament. Because there is money to be made, ASA, NSA, USSSA, AFA, NAFA, IFA, RISE, started up there only tournament system. The *ONLY* reason these organizations exist is to collect registration fees from teams.

Try having any softball organization without collecting registration fees. Weak argument. The only difference is the mission statements and the manner in which they are managed. To the best of my knowledge, ASA is the only organization not "owned".

But, to each their own..

 

[fastpitch]

In the NY/NJ area it feels as if there are too many travel teams and not enough players at the younger ages. The teams are watered down and there are a lot of teams still looking for players or only have a roster of 10.

I understand on a National level ASA is the most competitive; but in the NY/NJ area for 14u and younger; ASA presence is almost nonexistent. They are unorganized and tournaments are few and far between. Teams are forced to go to other organizations (USSSA, PONY, ISA, NSA) to round out their schedule. ASA also require you to purchase specific ASA insurance for qualifiers which for a team that might already have insurance is seen as a waste or added expense to maybe enter one ASA tournament.

 

[sluggers]

MTR--I'm not arguing anything. The ASA was (and still is) the dominant softball organization in the US. Back in the late 1990s, the ASA failed to fully understand what it would mean to have 20 times more girls playing fastpitch. The ASA didn't understand the new demographics--e.g., the "everyone is a winner" mentality, the rise of the Daddy-Daughter teams and the helicopter parents, ASA's failure led to other organizations stealing market share.

To me it has never been hard to understand the Championship Play of ASA's mission of maintaining a path to a national championship, not a showcase, not a vacation plan, etc.

Understandable for male SP players who don't want softball to interfere too much with the party.

Come on, fastpitch teams regularly turned down ASA bids to the nationals back in the day simply because they didn't want to travel to Dog Run, ID and lose two games in two days and have to drive back.

 

[Sparky Guy]

Come on, fastpitch teams regularly turned down ASA bids to the nationals back in the day simply because they didn't want to travel to Dog Run, ID and lose two games in two days and have to drive back.

You're missing the other thing the ASA tired and everyone was up in arms about. The triple elimination bracket format. Remember that one? Just add another layer of games to the losers bracket games. That went over like a pile of dung. The ASA got rid of that one REAL quick. I can't remember if that was a national thing or if it was just the Chicago Metro that did that.

 

[nanotech14]

I am all for reducing the number of games so that the competition actually means something. We have gotten to the point that it is solely pay for play, done so we won't hurt the losers' feelings about their effort and money.

Pool play should just go back to the old fashioned round robin tournaments, and leave the championships to the champions, where the losers should go home if they lose two.

But would they lower the cost of the tournaments,also it can be benifical to learn from your loses,and besides who decides who the losers are that you don't want in these tournaments.I guess I could see in the older divisions u-16 and up. But some of the lower age grouphs are still finding where they fit as a team.

 

[sluggers]

The triple elimination bracket format. Remember that one?

I've tried to forget...but vodka and tequila only help so much.

 

[FPMark]

Tournaments are all about money no matter what the sanction. The more games gaurenteed the more teams show up. I do believe this is a sad commentary on travel ball teams who will not play in a tournament because their view is "we don't want to go to a tournament that we may only play 2 games and go home". If you don't believe you can win, why go to any tournament? Why travel to a tournament and spend a weekend in a motel if you believe you will get beat every game? ASA nationals is no different, except they offer a chance to win 'the Nationals' instead of extra games. When you have close to 100 teams compeating for one national championship, the odds of winning are pretty slim. Sure the experiance is worth something, playing the best teams in the country and all, but it is a huge expense spending a week in 'Dog Run, ID', but if my DD's team qualifies, we will go because she would be devistated if we didn't.

It just seems to me that if Nationals, or any other sanctions World Series were not about money, qualifying would be made much harder. Something like having to qualify for the state championship where only the top finishers would qualify for a division championship. Then the division would send the top one or two teams to Nationals. Then Nationals could be completed in one weekend instead of a whole week and only the elite teams would get there.

If it's not about money, then what is it that makes sanctions want as many teams as possible to attend their end of the year 'championship' tournament? I'm just wondering. Am I missing something?