Illinois Travel Teams going to USA

[Kiddj22]

We are also in Central Illinois (Peoria) and at the lower levels like 10u or 12u there are plenty of tournaments. This age cutoff thing is throwing a monkey wrench in our team and organization not just because of what we want to do as coaches, but because parents don't want to move their kids up uless they have to (which makes sense, some of them are very undersized and will get killed in 12U) so we are still deciding. But I'm not worried about enough games to play, there will most likely be HOI (which will be 10-14 games) and almost all of the tournaments we have played this year are just unsanctioned but have plenty of teams and plenty of competition. I'm sure being officially sanctioned as USA or USSSA is really important at 14U-18U but it just seems like a big headache to me now. By the time kids are 14u, the extreme size differences are mostly gone (unless they are just never going to be big kids) and it might make sense to just skip the second year in 12U (under the USA rules) and move up to 14U and be fully able to qualify for any tournament.

BNGSA guy, in the HOI email chat, there was someone from your organization VERY adamant that BNGSA would not be changing their age cut-offs and would be sticking with USSSA. Has that been decided?

People are all worked up that the Illinois 10U USA State Tournament only has 2-3 teams registered, well the USSSA state tournament only has 5 (and is at a nice park Louisville Slugger), so neither one is looking real good on attendance if you ask me.

Here's my thoughts.


Not a fan of tournaments, so I'd rather just schedule double headers and round robins. Tournaments are so spread out, by the time you get to the 2nd day, it's pretty much which team just wants to be there. Double headers allow you to pick and choose your competition, so if you want a challenge it's there, if you want to play teams your level, you control it. You can split the ump fees, play 4 games in less than 3 hours a day and enjoy the rest of your weekend. Those four games cost you maybe $200, you played your 4 games, but it didn't take 48 hours to do it. Then you affiliation doesn't matter, if it fits your team to be USA and keep most grades together, then do that.

 

[The Man In Blue]

BNGSA guy, in the HOI email chat, there was someone from your organization VERY adamant that BNGSA would not be changing their age cut-offs and would be sticking with USSSA. Has that been decided?

People are all worked up that the Illinois 10U USA State Tournament only has 2-3 teams registered, well the USSSA state tournament only has 5 (and is at a nice park Louisville Slugger), so neither one is looking real good on attendance if you ask me.

BNGSA had traditionally been USA, not USSSA. The tournaments they had scheduled this year were USA.

Maybe I am wrong in my belief that the sanction doesn't matter to most teams.

USA just recently canceled the 16u/18u state tournaments scheduled for Decatur. (I never understood why you hold state tournaments at a facility that doesn't host any of your tournaments all year long ... oh yea, old boy network.)

They say 12u state will still happen in Mapleton (??) and 14u in Bloomington.

 

[YoungBuck]

Here's my thoughts.


Not a fan of tournaments, so I'd rather just schedule double headers and round robins. Tournaments are so spread out, by the time you get to the 2nd day, it's pretty much which team just wants to be there. Double headers allow you to pick and choose your competition, so if you want a challenge it's there, if you want to play teams your level, you control it. You can split the ump fees, play 4 games in less than 3 hours a day and enjoy the rest of your weekend. Those four games cost you maybe $200, you played your 4 games, but it didn't take 48 hours to do it. Then you affiliation doesn't matter, if it fits your team to be USA and keep most grades together, then do that.

This will be a portion of the future of softball. Families will reach a tipping point where there is no longer value in what is being offered.

Minnesota is entering it’s second year of American Legion softball… Wisconsin starts this year. A for-profit college league starts next Summer. Softball will see an evolution. Give it a few years.

 

[Sparky Guy]

I agree, and USA in Northern IL, WI and the Chicago metro are fighting the same thing. PGF has gotten stronger, and NAFA is stronger in the Northern IL area

The good ol' boys who ran the ASA in Illinois for many,many years had their heads in the sand. They had the attitude that ASA and eventually USA softball is the top softball fastpitch sanctioning body in the US. For many years that was the case.

When PGF started it became exceptionally strong in Illinois and NW Indiana due to two people. The first was Bill Conroy and his development of the Beverly Bandit program in the SW suburbs of Chicago. The 2nd person is Dave Betcher. He used to run an organization in the SW burbs of Chicago. He ran some tournaments for the program that were always well attended. Due to some internal politics in the organization he left it. The organization eventually folded. However, Dave found a new calling. Running tournaments. And he runs them VERY, VERY well. He's transparent with all the teams, communicates all the important information early and always seems to be 2 steps ahead of weather related issues.

Dave is partnered with PGF. He runs qualifiers as well as showcase tournaments for them. His tournaments are always sold out well in advance with him trying to accommodate as many teams as the facilities sizes will allow him to do so. He is the biggest reason USA is struggling in Illinois. Years back the Chicago Metro Tournament was considered the Crown Jewel of tournaments in the Chicagoland area. Now they are lucky to have 8 or 10 teams.

 

[Sparky Guy]

BNGSA had traditionally been USA, not USSSA. The tournaments they had scheduled this year were USA.

Maybe I am wrong in my belief that the sanction doesn't matter to most teams.

USA just recently canceled the 16u/18u state tournaments scheduled for Decatur. (I never understood why you hold state tournaments at a facility that doesn't host any of your tournaments all year long ... oh yea, old boy network.)

They say 12u state will still happen in Mapleton (??) and 14u in Bloomington.

Bloomington-Normal used to be on the ASA rotation for National Tournaments. Do they still hold any there? It's been a long time since I've had to schedule any tournaments for a team.

 

[Kiddj22]

This will be a portion of the future of softball. Families will reach a tipping point where there is no longer value in what is being offered.

Minnesota is entering it’s second year of American Legion softball… Wisconsin starts this year. A for-profit college league starts next Summer. Softball will see an evolution. Give it a few years.

I actually wish it was like legion back in the day. You had a boundary of kids from schools you could make a team from instead of having 8 different organizations within 15 miles of each other.

Decatur area doesn't even have 1 big one to choose from, you have to stay local (Mt. Zion/Forsyth) or travel an hour to Bloomington, Springfield and Peoria.

 

[YoungBuck]

I actually wish it was like legion back in the day. You had a boundary of kids from schools you could make a team from instead of having 8 different organizations within 15 miles of each other.

Decatur area doesn't even have 1 big one to choose from, you have to stay local (Mt. Zion/Forsyth) or travel an hour to Bloomington, Springfield and Peoria.

It will... it's just going to take time. I think Wisconsin's first year they have approx. 30 teams. That's a pretty good start.

People will see the value in it. I have a relative that coaches an American Legion baseball team and they will play approx. 50 games in 60 days and never play more than two in a day... it's just a different approach. Kids can work during the day. Show up for batting practice and play a double header daily.

I currently help a 16U travel softball team and players drive hours for practice and I don't think they are getting near the value that these Legion teams will see.

 

[The Man In Blue]

The good ol' boys who ran the ASA in Illinois for many,many years had their heads in the sand. They had the attitude that ASA and eventually USA softball is the top softball fastpitch sanctioning body in the US. For many years that was the case.

When PGF started it became exceptionally strong in Illinois and NW Indiana due to two people. The first was Bill Conroy and his development of the Beverly Bandit program in the SW suburbs of Chicago. The 2nd person is Dave Betcher. He used to run an organization in the SW burbs of Chicago. He ran some tournaments for the program that were always well attended. Due to some internal politics in the organization he left it. The organization eventually folded. However, Dave found a new calling. Running tournaments. And he runs them VERY, VERY well. He's transparent with all the teams, communicates all the important information early and always seems to be 2 steps ahead of weather related issues.

Dave is partnered with PGF. He runs qualifiers as well as showcase tournaments for them. His tournaments are always sold out well in advance with him trying to accommodate as many teams as the facilities sizes will allow him to do so. He is the biggest reason USA is struggling in Illinois. Years back the Chicago Metro Tournament was considered the Crown Jewel of tournaments in the Chicagoland area. Now they are lucky to have 8 or 10 teams.

That may be true for Chicago-land, but PGF hasn't made it south of Peoria and doesn't have a huge hold up there. Slugger is only hosting a couple of PGF tournaments, everything else is U-Trip.

That reinforces my point that the name-brand doesn't matter as much as the local people.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Bloomington-Normal used to be on the ASA rotation for National Tournaments. Do they still hold any there? It's been a long time since I've had to schedule any tournaments for a team.

Before COVID, they held one. Decatur did also (I was asked to work that one and turned it down).

Not sure about anything since 2020 ... I just came back this year to find things in shambles.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Going to throw this wildcard in ... The last two tournaments I have worked were baseball in Rantoul. They have two groups that put on tournaments there: Game Day and Rock Tournaments. I haven't worked for Game Day, but Rock Tournaments uses NFHS rules and offers softball tournaments also.

When I was down south, I worked for a group called 2D that put on quality tournaments that were unaffiliated and used NFHS rules.