Hit or error?

[TMD]

How do you figure she didn't get penalized? Sure, her average stays the same, but every other advance metric took a loss. Slugging percentage, OPS, etc...

She didn't get penalized because the play you describe is legitimately an error. Had the fielder not committed the error, your daughter would have ended up with a single anyway. The fact that in this play she ended up on 2nd had nothing to do with her hit, but rather with the error.

 

[_MIA_]

It's completely subjective, and to think otherwise is kidding yourself. While I agree there are certain rules that apply to scoring a hit or an error, to think what's declared an error isn't up to the personal judgement of the scorekeeper is wrong.

Last night's FSU/Gators game had a ball hit to 2B by an FSU player. The 2B booted the ball. No hard effort to get to the ball, no weird bounce. She missed it. She eventually came around to score, so Hightower got charged with an earned run. Both announcers said it "has to be an error," and were shocked when it was called a hit. By every letter of the rules you seem to follow, it was an error, but the scorekeeper used his/her judgement and decided it was a hit. You can watch almost any MLB game and question the scorekeeper's call on a hit or error.

In the grand scheme of things, the outcome of the game doesn't change. But, there's no reason a pitcher should be penalized because the fielder made a huge mental mistake.

Maybe the rules need to be adjusted...

The idea of ordinary effort is certainly subjective but your first post seemed to be asking for other people's opinions because you were not sure. If you just wanted validation for your judgement you should have said so and nobody with a different opinion would have responded..

 

[TMD]

It's completely subjective, and to think otherwise is kidding yourself. While I agree there are certain rules that apply to scoring a hit or an error, to think what's declared an error isn't up to the personal judgement of the scorekeeper is wrong.

Last night's FSU/Gators game had a ball hit to 2B by an FSU player. The 2B booted the ball. No hard effort to get to the ball, no weird bounce. She missed it. She eventually came around to score, so Hightower got charged with an earned run. Both announcers said it "has to be an error," and were shocked when it was called a hit. By every letter of the rules you seem to follow, it was an error, but the scorekeeper used his/her judgement and decided it was a hit. You can watch almost any MLB game and question the scorekeeper's call on a hit or error.

In the grand scheme of things, the outcome of the game doesn't change. But, there's no reason a pitcher should be penalized because the fielder made a huge mental mistake.

Maybe the rules need to be adjusted...

There are a number of rules that I question, but by and large rules related to errors are pretty solid.

There will always be plays that are no-doubt errors, and of course always plays that are no-doubt hits. Given that, there will also always be plays that fall into a grey area that, yes, will require a level of judgment on the part of the official scorer. I wasn't watching the Florida-FSU game so didn't see the play in question and can't comment on it. Do official scorers sometimes get it wrong? Absolutely, but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are scoring in good faith and not because they don't want to "penalize" their daughter.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

There are a number of rules that I question, but by and large rules related to errors are pretty solid.

There will always be plays that are no-doubt errors, and of course always plays that are no-doubt hits. Given that, there will also always be plays that fall into a grey area that, yes, will require a level of judgment on the part of the official scorer. I wasn't watching the Florida-FSU game so didn't see the play in question and can't comment on it. Do official scorers sometimes get it wrong? Absolutely, but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are scoring in good faith and not because they don't want to "penalize" their daughter.

So, you're suggesting it's home cooking? Got it...

 

[nixxy311]

As scorer for DDs teams it's so hard but you have to try to be unbiased towards how things would affect your own kid. And I think for those that score you almost get tougher on your own kid - DD has a lot of ROE and I tend to charge her with errors more than I would another player. I do tend to ask around me to see how other parents feel to make sure I'm not being hard on any player. And I have gone and looked at the other team's GC to see as well.

One game DD was in LF and she was right there ready to make a catch and lost the ball in the sun. I scored it a hit since it was my understanding that a ball lost in the sun wouldn't be an error. Her HS coach went behind me and charged her with an error :/ So I think a lot of people have different opinions on errors even if the rules say something different.

I think also as skill level goes up what is ordinary effort gets a bit harder to determine.

 

[TMD]

So, you're suggesting it's home cooking? Got it...

Sorry, where did I say that? I am saying that yes there are plays where the scorer needs to apply judgement, and I like to assume that they are doing that within the confines of the rules. I am sure that there are some bad actors who score some plays in bad faith to the benefit of (or detriment of) one team/player or another...the kind who disregard the rule because they don't agree with it, for example...but I'd like to think that would be really really rare once you get past travel ball and HS ball.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

Absolutely, but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are scoring in good faith and not because they don't want to "penalize" their daughter.

I'm sorry if that wasn't your intent, but that seems like it was directed towards me.

That's being said, the play had zero outcome on the game. We lost 2-0 because we couldn't hit against a slop thrower. However, out coaches rely on GC for stats and plays because they have a bunch of 9th graders keeping the book who have no clue what they're doing. If there's a way to notate a mental error, I'm happy to add it in. As I said before, the girl took credit for her mistake. Even she said she made an error on the play. The hope is she fixes the issue since it's the third time this season she has done the same thing.

 

[TMD]

I'm sorry if that wasn't your intent, but that seems like it was directed towards me.

That's being said, the play had zero outcome on the game. We lost 2-0 because we couldn't hit against a slop thrower. However, out coaches rely on GC for stats and plays because they have a bunch of 9th graders keeping the book who have no clue what they're doing. If there's a way to notate a mental error, I'm happy to add it in. As I said before, the girl took credit for her mistake. Even she said she made an error on the play. The hope is she fixes the issue since it's the third time this season she has done the same thing.

At the end of the day, that's what you want...the player knows that they need to do better and hopefully put in the work to do so.

 

[Cannonball]

So, are you the team's official scorer or just a dad in the stands keeping score? If your coaches are depending upon parents for stats, then, ...

As an FYI, this past fall when asked to be a HC again at my new school, I kept the book and coached 3B. I had about every parent volunteer. LOL IMO, it is hard for any parent to be objective just as it for them to be objective when they coach their own child. Believe me, I've been there.

Edit to add:

I found this statement odd:

"As I said before, the girl took credit for her mistake. Even she said she made an error on the play. The hope is she fixes the issue since it's the third time this season she has done the same thing." I wonder how this came up in conversation. After a game, I don't see my players walking around telling everyone about the mistakes that they have made. JMHO.

 

[radness]

However, our coaches rely on GC for stats and plays.

imo~ That right there appears the root of this conundrum.

Coaches should use more than stats
and include knowledge that is not calculated in the stats book.

Statistics are just a method of mathematical analysis and has to have perimeters to do so.
That's why people have shown the 'directions' on how to keep stats.

If everybody used different parameters the stats would be all over the place.
....oh yeah Game Changer

_________________________
This may be a little extreme in my explanation about,
Trying to determine mental error and anyone considering applying that....
That could happen every single pitch of the game.

if the pitcher throws a pitch and it didn't break maybe she had a mental error that she didn't apply her mechanics correctly. Or the batter went to swing and dropped her hands horribly and that was a mental error that she didn't focus on better mechanics.
The Fielder missed the grounder because she did not stay down on it mental errors had bad mechanics.

It is difficult enough for people to subjectively / objectively / judge
Ordinary effort.
Let alone what the player was thinking in the midst of it.