How many earned runs in this inning?

[uncdrew]

I don't see how at least B2 isn't an earned run.

Inning should have been over before that runner scored. Only reason inning was extended is because of the error at first.

 

[uncdrew]

Just catching up on this. The 2022/2023 NCAA rules has this section which supports all the runs being unearned:

14.23.3

Unearned runs… After the defensive team has had an opportunity to record three outs employing only ordinary effort, any subsequent runs that score shall be unearned. A run is always unearned if the runner who scores reached first base by error or had prolonged life because of a dropped foul fly or obstruction.

So yes it looks like the - the K, 1-3 error, and 3-2 got you your 3 opportunities for outs and is following that any runs are now unearned.


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Yup.

It's all in these two plays. Outs 1, 2 and 3 (that should have all been made) are bolded:

B3 - Strike out
B4 - Comebacker to pitcher. Good throw to first, muffed by F3. Ball trickles away. B1 comes around third and is sent home. F3 throws to F2, out at home. (R - Scored on B7 Double)

 

[_MIA_]

Yup.

It's all in these two plays. Outs 1, 2 and 3 (that should have all been made) are bolded:

B3 - Strike out
B4 - Comebacker to pitcher. Good throw to first, muffed by F3. Ball trickles away. B1 comes around third and is sent home. F3 throws to F2, out at home. (R - Scored on B7 Double)

Right but if no error occurred they would have more than likely only got 1 out there but perhaps (like has been mentioned)
that cannot be factored into the scoring...not sure. That is most certainly how GC/IScore is doing it (eg not making that assumption..no real way for a computer to know that)

 

[_MIA_]

I guess the question is, can you take away an out when you reconstruct the errorless inning..?? I haven't seen anywhere which says you cannot (thanks for leading me down this rabbit hole @CoachJD ) but it would seem like you shouldn't be able to.

 

[CoachJD]

Yup.

It's all in these two plays. Outs 1, 2 and 3 (that should have all been made) are bolded:

B3 - Strike out
B4 - Comebacker to pitcher. Good throw to first, muffed by F3. Ball trickles away. B1 comes around third and is sent home. F3 throws to F2, out at home. (R - Scored on B7 Double)

Can you think of a high-profile play (baseball or softball) that resembles the B4 play? Where the error directly caused the runner's act which led to the out?

I don't disagree with you here at all. I think this might be one of those things where the scoring rules don't care about the plays being a single related event and not two distinct events. Not everything in scoring is perfectly fair all the time, and this could just be one of those instances.

 

[uncdrew]

I guess the question is, can you take away an out when you reconstruct the errorless inning..?? I haven't seen anywhere which says you cannot (thanks for leading me down this rabbit hole @CoachJD ) but it would seem like you shouldn't be able to.

I don't buy in to your reverse engineering errorless inning construct. So I will not be answering the question.

 

[uncdrew]

Can you think of a high-profile play (baseball or softball) that resembles the B4 play? Where the error directly caused the runner's act which led to the out?

I don't disagree with you here at all. I think this might be one of those things where the scoring rules don't care about the plays being a single related event and not two distinct events. Not everything in scoring is perfectly fair all the time, and this could just be one of those instances.

Yeah, I agree it's odd.

I think we've all seen this play, perhaps at younger ages:

Runner on third. Short fly ball to left field. LF muffs the ball, and runner heads home. Runner was not going to tag (we don't think). So if runner is thrown out at home after the muff, it's kind of the same thing. Out should have been made on batter. Out was made on runner.


Oh, what about this one:

Runner on first. Short fly ball to RF. Runner goes "halfway" to second. RF misses the easy pop up, but throws the runner out at second.

 

[_MIA_]

I don't buy in to your reverse engineering errorless inning construct. So I will not be answering the question.

You don't have to buy into it but most sources which explain how to determine an unearned run explain it exactly that way

 

[LEsoftballdad]

I think this is all predicated on the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. There is no guarantee that had the error not occurred, the rest of the inning would have played out the same way.

 

[_MIA_]

I think this is all predicated on the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. There is no guarantee that had the error not occurred, the rest of the inning would have played out the same way.

Sure but the rules allow the determination of an unearned run to sometimes be subjective. Like I mentioned, I think the one thing which you may not be able to do is take away an out which you could say occurred only because of the error.