Fouts pitching out of her glove.

[Towny9]

Or the split-fingered fastball, though not too many throw that pitch anymore. The ball in the dirt is hard to pick and then throw the batter out.

Right - anything down is much harder to throw on and curve/split usually end up down.

 

[Hillhouse]

Thanks for sharing your insight.

I've seen the twist and don't really understand it either. I thought it was a stretch or a tic or a mental cue. I dunno what I thought other than "that seems strange". But if it's to hide a pitch or tell from the 3B coach, that's odd.

I'm still in young girl softball, first year 14U. Even at the top levels, there isn't pitch picking. I'll pay more attention to "Sit!" or "Do it!" going forward. Thanks for the education.

I think there's more to it even at 14u than you may have seen so far. Of course, I don't know where you are or whats happening in your area. But, the serious teams and players who aren't singing, chanting, beating water bottles against the fence but instead are watching the pitcher throw, are trying to see whatever they can.

Listen, as a pitching coach who wants his students to do well, I sincerely HOPE hitters don't get better at reading a pitcher. But I'm telling you it's coming. In a few years, someone will start a thread (similar to this one) where they are talking about picking the pitcher, and I'll reply "Hmmm, too bad nobody mentioned THIS years ago!!!" lol

 

[Hillhouse]

I can say with certainty that if you tried pitch picking in baseball, pre-90s, the next batter would get drilled in the ribs or have a little chin music played. That would end it real quick.

The Phillies had a pitcher picked in the WS this year. I can't remember, game 2 or 3. Bryce Harper was clearly seen going up and down the dugout telling the team what he saw. And they hammered the guy. There was a lot of press and stories about it, the Astro's pitcher apparently acknowledged that they had something on him. This was something that could be seen from the plate.

I can't believe there's still people not sure there's enough time to react if a coach called something, or they don't believe someone could react in time. These are things that are worked on (or should be) in practices.

If you go to the batter's box with your eyes and EARS open, knowing that the coach or your teammates might be able to give you a tip on what's coming, you'll do a lot better than going up and guessing what may or may not be coming. If you can get that advantage, you take it.

I'm guessing the curveball would be somewhat equal, but there's more and more baseball pitcher throwing change ups today than ever before. A curveball is a different speed than the baseball "fastball" but softball pitchers should learn to vary their speeds too, not everything off speed needs to be a change up.

 

[wheresmycar]

So if a coaching staff has a coach good at picking pitchers and they play the role of 3rd base coach so they have a better view of the opposing pitcher and can signal the batter, would they move over to 1st base coach when a lefty pitcher goes in?

They might, if pitcher is tipping pitches. Really too many variables... Is lefty tipping her pitches also? which side is dugout on? If he/she tells other coaches/players what to look for, can they make the "calls"?

It has to be subtle... If pitcher realizes what's going on, they will hide pitches better, or worse... fake tip a change, then fling a 65 MPH fastball down the pipe.

 

[uncdrew]

I think there's more to it even at 14u than you may have seen so far. Of course, I don't know where you are or whats happening in your area. But, the serious teams and players who aren't singing, chanting, beating water bottles against the fence but instead are watching the pitcher throw, are trying to see whatever they can.

Listen, as a pitching coach who wants his students to do well, I sincerely HOPE hitters don't get better at reading a pitcher. But I'm telling you it's coming. In a few years, someone will start a thread (similar to this one) where they are talking about picking the pitcher, and I'll reply "Hmmm, too bad nobody mentioned THIS years ago!!!" lol

We play in the top tourneys with the top teams in the country. I'll pay more attention but thus far not seeing it (coaches signaling what pitch is coming).

But here's the thing. There's not enough time in the day of a 13 year old girl to work on stuff that might be coming in a few years. We'll simply work on that when the time comes, if it does. Outside of school, grades, chores, being a kid we have a limited time to do softball stuff. And on that list there are fielding, hitting and pitching things to work on that have more urgency and more direct impact to her success. Hiding the pitch from possibly getting picked when she's in 18U is very low on that list.

We all hear you saying it, and most of us will remember you said it.

We do work hard on making all pitches look the same. I agree having a tell is something that needs to be fixed immediately.

 

[wheresmycar]

I'm still in young girl softball, first year 14U. Even at the top levels, there isn't pitch picking.

Yes, there are 14u teams doing this, and they are based in Georgia. My DD1's 16u team played an elite 1st year 14u team last summer. Gave up two home runs to this team on.... change ups. It was almost like they knew it was coming... I reviewed the video at home later in the week, and was perplexed... the batters made no adjustment, they were sitting change the whole way. And then I heard the "call". It was not "Do it" or "Sit on it"....

I clipped the pitch, and played it for my DD. I didn't tell her why, I just said, listen.... do you hear it? I played it over and over, and then she heard it... confused at first.... then it hit her like a ton of bricks... OH #@$%@!!!! Anyway, we are a little more disciplined about hiding our grip now...

 

[uncdrew]

Yes, there are 14u teams doing this, and they are based in Georgia. My DD1's 16u team played an elite 1st year 14u team last summer. Gave up two home runs to this team on.... change ups. It was almost like they knew it was coming... I reviewed the video at home later in the week, and was perplexed... the batters made no adjustment, they were sitting change the whole way. And then I heard the "call". It was not "Do it" or "Sit on it"....

I clipped the pitch, and played it for my DD. I didn't tell her why, I just said, listen.... do you hear it? I played it over and over, and then she heard it... confused at first.... then it hit her like a ton of bricks... OH #@$%@!!!! Anyway, we are a little more disciplined about hiding our grip now...

My DD is on a 14A team in Georgia.

We were 12A last summer, however. Which team was it you were playing?

 

[HunterMO]

Yes, there are 14u teams doing this, and they are based in Georgia. My DD1's 16u team played an elite 1st year 14u team last summer. Gave up two home runs to this team on.... change ups. It was almost like they knew it was coming... I reviewed the video at home later in the week, and was perplexed... the batters made no adjustment, they were sitting change the whole way. And then I heard the "call". It was not "Do it" or "Sit on it"....

I clipped the pitch, and played it for my DD. I didn't tell her why, I just said, listen.... do you hear it? I played it over and over, and then she heard it... confused at first.... then it hit her like a ton of bricks... OH #@$%@!!!! Anyway, we are a little more disciplined about hiding our grip now...

It happens here too. I wouldn't say it's common, but I've heard and seen it. DD will watch and watch and watch until she finds it (if its to be found). Then she'll relay it to her team. Whether some of her teammates are able (or even try) to identify it remains to be seen I think. She has also been able to pick-up when an off-speed or something "to cause a chase" is coming based on pitch call/decision tendencies.

From the defensive side (3B), she'll figure out pick batter calls/signs based on game situation and team tendencies. I've seen her get uncomfortably aggressive because she picked/assumed a bunt signal. Most times she's right.

Anything a player can do to get an advantage, they need to do it (within the rules). Whether that's picking pitches or hiding the ball for as long as possible.

 

[wheresmycar]

My DD is on a 14A team in Georgia.

We were 12A last summer, however. Which team was it you were playing?

Yes, I remembered you were in Georgia. Oh, I will not call them out on the forums...

On a related note... During HS ball last fall, the Same DD picked the change up of a girl we know who takes lessons at our facility. During DD's first at bat, she realized she could see the grip on her change pre-motion. This resulted in a double and a triple later in the game.

 

[uncdrew]

Yes, I remembered you were in Georgia. Oh, I will not call them out on the forums...

On a related note... During HS ball last fall, the Same DD picked the change up of a girl we know who takes lessons at our facility. During her first at bat, she realized she could see the grip on her change pre-motion. This resulted in a double and a triple later in the game.

I don't think naming a team for hitting home runs is a problem here.

Big difference between a tell and a grip. If the pitcher puts her tongue out when a change-up is coming or they spin the ball in their glove more than normal before a riseball, to me that's a tell and can be exploited.

Still not convinced a coach seeing a grip in a backswing and then yelling something to the girl as the pitcher is striding and the batter adjusting is possible. I'm not saying I don't believe it, just not convinced. You say these batters were sitting on change the entire time. If the coach was yelling mid-stride then the batter would be sitting on fastball and adjusting to change. So in your case, it seems it was a tell. Something let the batters know a change was coming and that was before the pitcher or batter loaded.

And "picking up the grip on her change pre-motion" is also a tell, and good for the batter and bad on the pitcher. That would be something the pitcher should change IMHO.


Basically I'm saying I agree with you. There are things that occur before the pitcher goes into her motion that can be exploited, and are exploited. At all ages. I'm still stuck on the "coach sees the backswing and relays it to the hitter who while in the zone adjusts her swing successfully". That I'm not seeing at all, and am a bit skeptical about.