Does run count

[CoachJD]

Ruleset does not matter on this. Same in all codes.

Also the same in all baseball codes, you know, in case Aaron Boone is wondering.

 

[Coach LM]

USA softball sanction at the 12u All American Games...

Runners on second and third 1 out. Batter hits a fly ball to center and ball is caught for out number 2. Girl from third tags up and scores, girl on second never tagged up, so appeal was made at second base and ump ruled the third out. Does the run count?

Our coach who is a D2 coach said it was a dead ball play, run doesn't count. Umps ruled it was a live ball play run counts.

would college rules make the outcome different?

Failing to tag up is a considered a "tag play". If the run scores before the appeal the run counts. Missing a base is considered a force play and the run would not count.

 

[tjr3000]

Failing to tag up is a considered a "tag play". If the run scores before the appeal the run counts. Missing a base is considered a force play and the run would not count.

Please cite a rule/sanction reference for the above. I do not know of any ruleset where a missed base becomes a force play. In fact, in most sanctions I am aware of, the runner is ASSUMED to have tagged the base once they pass it and can only be called out on appeal (live or dead ball).

 

[The Man In Blue]

Failing to tag up is a considered a "tag play". If the run scores before the appeal the run counts. Missing a base is considered a force play and the run would not count.

I was going to offer corrections, but after re-reading it, I think you do understand how it works. Your terminology is off and problematic though.

Failing to to tag up is not a tag play.

You are correct that the run stays on the board if they score before the appeal for leaving early is executed. The terminology you are looking for is a time play.

Missing a base is not a force play. It is still a type of appeal play, however it may or may not be a time play. If the play at that base was a force play, the appeal is treated like a force out because the runner never legally acquired the base. If the play at that base was not a force play, it is treated as a time play.

 

[BillyB]

I would say the run doesn't count. IF the appeal is that the runner on second left early, than it's a double play and run doesn't count. What am I missing? Appealing for review is just verifying that it was a double play which is technically treated like a force out. Even if there wasn't a throw to second on the double up, a runner that leaves early is out immediatly if seen properly, which wouldn't allow time for runner on 3rd to cross before anyway.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Crabby_Bob]

Am I missing something here?

An appeal for a runner leaving early on a caught fly ball is NEVER a force play. The batter-runner is out on the caught fly ball and nobody is forced to advance.

Others have correctly addressed this as a timing play; the appeal must be made before the runner from third scores. Umpires, by rule, do not rule on missed bases and leaving early on a caught fly ball until the defense correctly makes an appeal.

 

[BillyB]

An appeal for a runner leaving early on a caught fly ball is NEVER a force play. The batter-runner is out on the caught fly ball and nobody is forced to advance.

Others have correctly addressed this as a timing play; the appeal must be made before the runner from third scores. Umpires, by rule, do not rule on missed bases and leaving early on a caught fly ball until the defense correctly makes an appeal.

Interesting, good thing it doesn't come up too much.

 

[Bernie]

Interesting, good thing it doesn't come up too much.

Easy one. Everyone should know that. Fairly common.


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[BillyB]

Easy one. Everyone should know that. Fairly common.


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It shouldn't come up too often, it's a specific situation if leaving early without tagging, while including a runner scoring, then becoming a 3rd out...Interesting stuff.

 

[The Man In Blue]

This topic is no longer up for debate. If you thought the run does not score, you are wrong.