Diving and awarding an error..

[nikkilugi]

While one player can stay on their feet to try and make the play they could still miss it and would be charged an error but another player who doesn't have the speed on their feet may chose to dive in which case they would not get an error, however the play distance could be the same.

That is why I responded enquiring to your post in the other thread

This is not entirely true. Just because a player stays on their feet because they are faster doesn't mean it is automatically an error if the play isn't made. Again we are still looking at extraordinary effort of ALL players - not just the one based on how fast they are. If there is a hard hit ball straight up the middle and the SS hauls rear over to get it and is fast and doesn't have to dive but the ball glances off her glove I'm not scoring that an error. That is beyond ordinary effort to field a ball. Ordinary effort is just that - ordinary. If someone has to make a Herculean effort to get the ball then that is not ordinary.

Now the caveat definitely is how hard the ball is hit as well. I was watching the Jax/Florida game last night and a fairly soft/regular hit ball bounced just on the SS side of 2nd and the SS was there in time to field it. The ball hit her glove and bounced out. That was an error. It took the scorers a minute to come to that conclusion because I'm sure they were discussing the play parameters but in the end the ball wasn't hit with the force that would make that play extraordinary. That is why I always like to have another person around me so we can discuss plays that I am unsure of - getting other people's judgement helps in those situations.

 

[TMD]

There is a difference between plays that are scored as errors per the rules of the game and plays that are what I called "coachable errors" (i.e., mental/judgment errors).

Diving for a ball and not making the catch, whether the ball hits your glove or not, is not an error because diving for a ball is not "ordinary effort". Same if you don't dive but have to run a "considerable distance" or attempting to make the catch while running at high speed...misses in those instances are also not errors.

I forget who, but someone indicated that they would likely score an error if an player badly misjudged a fly ball, running 15 yards to the left only to realize the ball was actually going to drop where she started so runs back dives and misses. Sorry, but that is not an error ever. A "coachable error" for sure, but not a scorebook error.

The benefit of the doubt should always favor the batter and scoring it as a hit.

 

[Towny9]

There is a difference between plays that are scored as errors per the rules of the game and plays that are what I called "coachable errors" (i.e., mental/judgment errors).

Diving for a ball and not making the catch, whether the ball hits your glove or not, is not an error because diving for a ball is not "ordinary effort". Same if you don't dive but have to run a "considerable distance" or attempting to make the catch while running at high speed...misses in those instances are also not errors.

I forget who, but someone indicated that they would likely score an error if an player badly misjudged a fly ball, running 15 yards to the left only to realize the ball was actually going to drop where she started so runs back dives and misses. Sorry, but that is not an error ever. A "coachable error" for sure, but not a scorebook error.

The benefit of the doubt should always favor the batter and scoring it as a hit.

I am the one who mentioned the above scenario. I think different people have a different definition or different usage for the term “misjudged”. If a routine flyball hit right at an outfielder is missed, that is an error. Short of a strong wind blowing it around like crazy, I don’t really care what cause resulted in it being missed. We aren’t talking about a hard to judge line drive, but a routine flyball that should be caught with ordinary effort every time. Every flyball requires some judgement and reading it off the bat to be caught and a ball doesn’t have to touch the glove to be an error. Now if an infielder fields the ball cleanly and “misjudges” the speed of the runner, takes a little too long, and results in the runner being safe - no error.

 

[Rick M]

As a scorekeeper, and the parent of a pitcher, the worst plays for me are the ‘Bermuda Triangle’ balls that drop between 1B, 2B, and RF. Should be an easy catch for somebody, but who would you give an error to?

I just groan softly and press Ball in Play - Single


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[radness]

Now the caveat definitely is how hard the ball is hit as well. I was watching the Jax/Florida game last night and a fairly soft/regular hit ball bounced just on the SS side of 2nd and the SS was there in time to field it. The ball hit her glove and bounced out. That was an error. It took the scorers a minute to come to that conclusion because I'm sure they were discussing the play parameters but in the end the ball wasn't hit with the force that would make that play extraordinary. That is why I always like to have another person around me so we can discuss plays that I am unsure of - getting other people's judgement helps in those situations.

I was bringing up a scenario for people to consider. Just as you explained that game detail.
That's all.
Thank you for validating that what I said is a possibility and thank you for adding to the detail in the conversation.

NCAA verbage says
EXCEPTIONALLY Good Fielding
within the description of error interpretation...
Interestingly to the discussion
It Does NOT say Ordinary...

 

[nikkilugi]

I was bringing up a scenario for people to consider. Just as you explained that game detail.
That's all.
Thank you for validating that what I said is a possibility and thank you for adding to the detail in the conversation.

NCAA verbage says
EXCEPTIONALLY Good Fielding
within the description of error interpretation...
Interestingly to the discussion
It Does NOT say Ordinary...
View attachment 25057

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. We have been saying the same thing - if a player tries to make an "exceptionally" good fielding play (like diving) and it doesn't result in a put out then it is a base hit (not an error). I mean that is exactly what the bold says above which is exactly what I have been saying this entire time. Exceptional fielding does depend on how hard the ball is hit and where of course which is what I added.

 

[Jeffrey]

Voted no. A dive is always extraordinary effort. Here’s a dive on a would be single that results in a double: I’d say single and an error, but that’s not the way it’s scored.

 

[_MIA_]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. We have been saying the same thing - if a player tries to make an "exceptionally" good fielding play (like diving) and it doesn't result in a put out then it is a base hit (not an error). I mean that is exactly what the bold says above which is exactly what I have been saying this entire time. Exceptional fielding does depend on how hard the ball is hit and where of course which is what I added.

She is saying diving should be expected hence it should be considered ordinary..and I will stop there.

 

[radness]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. We have been saying the same thing - if a player tries to make an "exceptionally" good fielding play (like diving) and it doesn't result in a put out then it is a base hit (not an error). I mean that is exactly what the bold says above which is exactly what I have been saying this entire time. Exceptional fielding does depend on how hard the ball is hit and where of course which is what I added.

I have no idea why you keep bantering back and forth about it we simply have both shared perspectives that both are valid in the conversation. The conversation does not have one answer.

If recollect correctly the initial post you offered in the other thread I replied 'good read' to.

Not sure why people want to look as posts as people trying to debate or undermine others it is just an accumulation of perspectives in conversations in chat rooms. I am not here to change anybody's mind about how they think about the game or what is important to them about it. I'm here to share my perspective. I'm okay with people having different opinions. Hope others can find a way to be more comfortable with other than their own thinking processes.

 

[_MIA_]

Not sure why people want to look as posts as people trying to debate or undermine others it is just an accumulation of perspectives in conversations in chat rooms.

It is a discussion board, not a journal, and sometimes discussion involves debate which in turn often involves debating the validity (or undermining in your words) of another person’s assertions..