Diving and awarding an error..

[Nimrod]

I am the one who mentioned the above scenario. I think different people have a different definition or different usage for the term “misjudged”. If a routine flyball hit right at an outfielder is missed, that is an error. Short of a strong wind blowing it around like crazy, I don’t really care what cause resulted in it being missed. We aren’t talking about a hard to judge line drive, but a routine flyball that should be caught with ordinary effort every time. Every flyball requires some judgement and reading it off the bat to be caught and a ball doesn’t have to touch the glove to be an error. Now if an infielder fields the ball cleanly and “misjudges” the speed of the runner, takes a little too long, and results in the runner being safe - no error.

IMO, misjudging the ball is misjudging the ball. I wouldn't distinguish between types of misjudgments. I view 'ordinary effort' as the effort required the catch the ball at the time the ball needs to be caught. If you're 7 feet away from it when it drops, even if you should've been there, then it no longer requires ordinary effort to catch it. I also don't rule as errors balls that drop between two fielders, but seems there's a trend toward making those errors now. I guess the argument is that they were in position to catch it but failed. I'd still rule that a hit, but understand how that's being challenged more these days. I'm not posting for sake of argument, but if it brings more viewpoints, that's fine. Wish there were ways to get good instruction on scorekeeping. I feel like I've studied it quite a bit, only to find out time and again that I've been wrong about something for years and didn't know it.

 

[Shiloh]

Misjudging a ball would be a mental error. Mental errors are never scored as errors. I don’t agree with it, but it’s the rules.

I've recorded an M5 (back in the paper and pencil days) as a reminder of the play.
Not an error, but something to work on during the next practice.

Another fun one is E0 or M0.
On the coaches.

 

[nikkilugi]

She is saying diving should be expected hence it should be considered ordinary..and I will stop there.

I guess I need to stop as well because as a score keeper it will never be ordinary. No where. Fielding AVG relates to statistics and scoring so maybe I'm just caught up in the semantics of the conversation and taking it to literal.

RAD: I mean, I get it, I expect my kid to dive for balls. I expect all the players on her team to dive for balls especially at the level of play they are in. Because that is expected of them at this level by coaches (and parents lol). If a player doesn't give the extra effort then a coach certainly will take that into consideration when making lineups. When coaching they sure can talk about improving their fielding but the minute they want to talk about stats then diving is now taken out of the equation. That's it. No score keeper is going to charge an error on a fielder diving. So a coach shouldn't hang something like fielding % or "team fielding average" over heads when trying to motivate players to do things like dive.

Yes, I am a linear literal thinker. I don't think I was rude throughout our discussion so I'm not sure why you took offense. You keep posting. You wanted discussion. I will discuss the crap outta this as long as you want to.

 

[radness]

I guess I need to stop as well because as a score keeper it will never be ordinary. No where. Fielding AVG relates to statistics and scoring so maybe I'm just caught up in the semantics of the conversation and taking it to literal.

RAD: I mean, I get it, I expect my kid to dive for balls. I expect all the players on her team to dive for balls especially at the level of play they are in. Because that is expected of them at this level by coaches (and parents lol). If a player doesn't give the extra effort then a coach certainly will take that into consideration when making lineups. When coaching they sure can talk about improving their fielding but the minute they want to talk about stats then diving is now taken out of the equation. That's it. No score keeper isn't going to charge an error on a fielder diving. So a coach shouldn't hang something like fielding % or "team fielding average" over heads when trying to motivate players to do things like dive.

Yes, I am a linear literal thinker. I don't think I was rude throughout our discussion so I'm not sure why you took offense. You keep posting. You wanted discussion. I will discuss the crap outta this as long as you want to.

Btw I never disagreed with any comments about how scorekeepers keep the book. Hope that is in line to help settle that.

 

[Eric F]

Catchers are expected to block pitches in the dirt, because that's part of the skillset of being a good C. But, if they miss it's a wild pitch, not a passed ball. Every time.

1B is expected to pick throws in the dirt, because that's part of the skillset of being a good 1B. But, if they miss, it's an error on the thrower, not 1B. Every time.

Fielders are expected to make the effort to dive as a way of extending their range, because that's part of the skillset of being a good fielder. But, if they miss, it's not an error on that fielder. Every time.

 

[Towny9]

IMO, misjudging the ball is misjudging the ball. I wouldn't distinguish between types of misjudgments. I view 'ordinary effort' as the effort required the catch the ball at the time the ball needs to be caught. If you're 7 feet away from it when it drops, even if you should've been there, then it no longer requires ordinary effort to catch it. I also don't rule as errors balls that drop between two fielders, but seems there's a trend toward making those errors now. I guess the argument is that they were in position to catch it but failed. I'd still rule that a hit, but understand how that's being challenged more these days. I'm not posting for sake of argument, but if it brings more viewpoints, that's fine. Wish there were ways to get good instruction on scorekeeping. I feel like I've studied it quite a bit, only to find out time and again that I've been wrong about something for years and didn't know it.

I can get down with that and definitely agree. I made an earlier comment that scoring something a hit or an error often times comes down to a “you had to be there” to see it for yourself sort of thing. Experienced scorekeepers sorta just know when it’s an error or not. Unless it’s the only hit in a no-hitter. Then it’s definitely an error

 

[MNDad]

I think it’s the multiple baseball meanings of the word “misjudge” causing us to disagree on this one. If a flyball is dropped (touching the glove or not) because the player “misjudged” the flyball, that is a physical error. He doesn’t have to touch it for it to be an error. If an infielder fields a ball successfully and makes a “misjudgement” and tries to get the lead out but the runner beats the throw, an error is not given even though he could have gotten the runner at first. That “misjudgment” is a mental error and those are not errors as you stated.

That’s actually covered n NCAA scoring rules.

No Error is given:

g. When a flyball is misjudged and the fielder cannot recover in time to make the play.”

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

 

[Towny9]

That’s actually covered n NCAA scoring rules.

No Error is given:

g. When a flyball is misjudged and the fielder cannot recover in time to make the play.”

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

Interesting that (g) is in the softball section but not the baseball one of that (unless I just missed it). Would love to hear how you/others would rule this infield flyball at the 4:52 mark

 

[_MIA_]

Interesting that (g) is in the softball section but not the baseball one of that (unless I just missed it). Would love to hear how you/others would rule this infield flyball at the 4:52 mark

I mean if DD missed that I would be taking a walk to another field for a while..

 

[Towny9]

I mean if DD missed that I would be taking a walk to another field for a while..

Hit or error though?