DD lost 12-6 rotation on drop ball

[CLM265]

I just went through this and it took a couple weeks too get the 12-6 spin back. She was taking the ball over the head, cupping her wrist, with too much bend in the elbow and bringing the ball outside and then pulling it in across her body and being lazy with her lower arm follow through. We changed her warm up to emphasize throwing down the power line and feeling the ball coming off the end of the finger tips.

 

[Rocketech1]

Second, make sure she has the palm of her hand hand facing 3rd base (RHP) at 12:00. Third, make sure she has her thumb pointing down at 9:00. (If she has no ball in her hand and spreads her fingers the thumb should be pointing down).

This is absolutely wrong advice. At 12 o'clock the palm and ball are facing the catcher and at 9 o'clock the palm is to the sky. Have you read any of the IR threads?

To the original post. Have DD set up 45 degrees to home plate about 20 feet away. Have her do her arm circle only throwing the ball right to the glove of the receiver of the ball. Have her focus on the correct hand position at 12 o'clock, 9 o'clock and 6 o'clock into and through the release. When she starts consistently throwing with tight 12-6 spin, move to the pitching plate and full motion. Repeat as necessary.

 

[dentedshins]

Thanks for everyone's input. I watched Bill Hillhouse's motion pitches and clinics. He is very clear about cupping the wrist and the effect it has with respect to a bullet spin. I believe the wrist cup, as well as hand position and grip may hold the answer(s). I've also come to believe the problem may have originated as she was developing the rise, which occurred at the same time the drop spin deteriorated. I need to spend a few days trying some things and recording/analyzing. Will post back results.

 

[Hillhouse]

Dentedshins, Don't dismiss the "I/R" component.

Using "IR", the wrist, hand and ball will correct themselves into the right position automatically. My talking about the wrist cupping being the culprit is really about pitchers who do not correct the problem on the downswing of the arm. This habit starts for many when a pitcher goes from the 11" ball to the 12", that bigger ball feels enormous. So, they cup the wrist to hold on to it.

When she gets older and more confident in her pitching, she can have her wrist facing the catcher, 3rd base, or facing anywhere because it will automatically correct itself into the right position. So, if her wrist is curled or cupped at 12:00, it will PROBABLY stay curled throughout. Not always. Bottom line, if she gets her 12-6 spin back, don't worry too much about her wrist position, it means she's made her correction.

Bill

 

[dentedshins]

Thanks Bill. I need to go through the I/R threads before making any changes. I'm pretty sure that what ever the anomaly, she is not making the correction, and as you and others have suggested, her arm may be traveling into her body at the bottom of the arm swing, with fingers under the ball generating the CW bullet spin (from pitchers perspective). She will be throwing tonight after a day off so I hopefully will have more details to add soon.

 

[Ken B]

dentedshins,
Check out these apps for your phone:

RightView Pro Baseball & Softball Training - Swing Analysis Software - Hitting or Pitching
Video Analysis & Sports Coaching App | Ubersense
Coach's Eye Sports Video Analysis App

RVP has a $10 app that does the basics. I don't know much more about any of them than that...

Just for fun, ask her to manipulate the direction of the tape/stripe while playing underhand catch. Have her try to turn the axis so the spin goes down/out, down/in and straight on. As she plays with this, ask her to feel what it is that she doing that makes the ball spin differently. More than anything, get her buy in into the process so she'll learn on her own and will be able to self correct.

Another idea is to let her have access to a striped ball around the house. Let her spin and experiment. Coach Hillhouse talks about this and I think its a great way to get a feel for the ball and how to manipulate it. She may find that it doesn't always translate directly to full motion, but it does become a key part of the process.


Ken

 

[dentedshins]

Perfect, thank Ken. One thing we have noticed is that the drop spin is true when she's doing snaps. I'm not sure about 'K's. Finally, to clarify for the thread, DD throws a peel drop, though she has no real exaggerated peel motion.

 

[Ken B]

Have her play with the spins in whatever is her most comfortable "drill." I like experimenting with 1/4-1/3 whips, then take it to a full circle with a step--no drive.

Straight rotation is the starting point. Getting more out the spin takes more playing around to find the cue/feel that works for her. As you watch various youtube vids of pitchers/coaches explaining this, you'll find several cues/feels explained and demonstrated. For example, Michele Smith and Amanda Scarborough have unique ways of explaining their drops. If you watch them demonstrating in full motion at game speed, you won't see the cue they just demonstrated. Neither of their cues work for me and I use a completely different cue, but can see (feel) some of what both are saying.

The trick is experimenting and finding a feel/cue that works for her. She (you) will see it it when it happens. You'll notice that "dropping off the table" difference and make sure there's instant feedback when it happens. Underhand catch from a longer distance helps to see it (50 ft +/-.)


Have fun!

 

[dentedshins]

Here is a snapshot from one our videos tonight. She has the ball at pointed at 3rd base at 6:00. I saw this consistently tonight when throwing the drop ball. She pretty much has the ball pointed at 3rd base throughout the arm circle. In real-time to the naked eye, I thought the fingers were underneath more than they actually are. I'm pretty sure this is a result of learning the rise, as it appears to be the pretty close to the proper rise ball position. There probably is not much I/R happening, although her upper and lower arm appear to be adequately relaxed for it. I don't think there is a deceleration of the upper arm at the bottom of the circle. So how to fix? She has not been able to adjust by feel or cue's, and in fact was as surprised as I was when we saw this. I'm just learning about I/R and she's just heading into all the state tournaments, so not really looking to start over at this particular point in time.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I am confused. That looks good.