The CWS shows bulletspin--rewriting the book on movement pitches

[Tatonka]

I don't think there is really a reason to teach it on purpose, but I do think it shows us you don't have to be perfect. True spin (correct for the pitch) will always be better but you don't have to be perfect to influence pitch movement.

Agreed, never would have even considered having to "teach" bullet spin.

 

[Tatonka]

Teach the proper spin and how to read spins, axis, yaw and seams so that as a pitcher you know exactly what you are trying to correct if something is off in a game. Reading the seams will also help any batter. Having a Catcher that can also read this info is critical also IMHO. During pitching practice having both (pitcher & catcher) confirming what the ball is doing keeps everyone honest and working to get better.

Once the proper spins are happening for each pitch type (at various speeds also) then I believe work can begin on imparting other influences on the ball to make it do what you want, ie; finger pressure, tilt, axis variations and semi-bullet/semi-back/down spin. Throw the drop curve or the "Scrise" on purpose for example, not because that's the best spin you can achieve and it's just a happy accident.

May be an oversimplified summary. ;-)

 

[jdint]

Agreed, never would have even considered having to "teach" bullet spin.

Why though? If video shows the best pitchers throwing bullet spin (see Garcia's rise ball) why are we chasing perfect spin. I guess I would like to know if throwing a version of a bullet spin pitch makes it easier to throw it at 65 plus.

edit: just saw your next post.

 

[ArmWhip]

I have been teaching bullet spin for several years now when I started seeing it on TV. I typically start with an overhand curve to get the feel of the ball coming off the index finger, slipping off the thumb. Sometimes it helps to spread the index finger and the thumb a little. The fingers should be pointed at the plate, but the ball doesn't 'roll' off the finger tips, it comes off the index finger. But that's just how I do it, there's nothing wrong with having a pitcher experiment and find their own method. On TV it looks like a circle grip is often used. Bullet spin is easy to learn and I like to use it as an introduction to the concept of having different pitches, 'bullet spin up, top spin down'. It's also part of bringing attention to how the ball spins. I always ask new students that are experienced how their fastball spins. I usually get looks of puzzlement, in their minds it's a fastball who cares how it spins. Many times when I warm up with a pitcher I draw their attention to how they spin the ball different ways by accident. When this happens and I ask them to do it again they usually can't.

 

[Tatonka]

Bullet Spin and no movement

My daughter is a senior this year and will be playing for a mid major next year. This past year, her pitching has become not so good! She has been getting pounded and I mean pounded. I didn't know balls could be hit so far. A little background: My daughter, from about 12U, has been a very...

www.discussfastpitch.com

The link posted above is a good read (or re-read) and fits in with our current discussion...

 

[jfitch12]

The slow mo on TV can make stuff that is maybe turned 30 degrees toward backspin look pretty bullety, which it is, but some degree of backspin is better than none,

This is the right answer (in my opinion). What we’ve seen on TV this year is what anyone with a Rapsodo has known for the last five years. Dropballs are generally effective at lower spin rates but need very true spin (spin efficiency > 95% to be really good), whereas riseballs are effective with less pure axis (spin efficiency > 65% is “elite”). A pitch that is between 60-80% efficient will look like it has a ton of bullet spin (because it does). That’s why most of the drops on TV look pretty true whereas none of the riseballs do.

Here are the Rapsodo charts: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...ll-Elite-Pitching-Guide_2021.pdf?v=1660038271

ETA: the other observation people have made—that “pure” backspin comes at the expense of speed—is also true from what I have seen. Once backspin efficiency climbs above 90%, it’s almost always accompanied by a 3-5 mph drop in velocity.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Man In Blue]

Hillhouse

Don’t you you know the Riseball is an optical illusion? lol

 

[tomorrow]

This is the right answer (in my opinion). What we’ve seen on TV this year is what anyone with a Rapsodo has known for the last five years. Dropballs are generally effective at lower spin rates but need very true spin (spin efficiency > 95% to be really good), whereas riseballs are effective with less pure axis (spin efficiency > 65% is “elite”). A pitch that is between 60-80% efficient will look like it has a ton of bullet spin (because it does). That’s why most of the drops on TV look pretty true whereas none of the riseballs do.

Here are the Rapsodo charts: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...ll-Elite-Pitching-Guide_2021.pdf?v=1660038271

ETA: the other observation people have made—that “pure” backspin comes at the expense of speed—is also true from what I have seen. Once backspin efficiency climbs above 90%, it’s almost always accompanied by a 3-5 mph drop in velocity.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When looking at that chart I would have assumed that 60-80% efficiency on rise balls would have meant a tilt in ball axis (ie 7 to 1 or 5 to 11 rotation) not a tilted axis bullet spin.

 

[ArmWhip]

Here's a look at excellent spin, but it's definitely low velocity.

 

[Shawn]

Here's a look at excellent spin, but it's definitely low velocity.

They showed Canady throwing a perfect logo from center field, definitely high velocity.