cut-throat travel teams

[marriard]

You're making too many assumptions. The "cut-throat" teams are simply offering a higher level of training and/or competition. They carry large rosters so they have enough girls to make in game adjustments and because older girls have other commitments and will often miss a tourney or two.

In College/HS/18U Showcase/16U Showcase sure.. otherwise I stand by what I said.

It works to tell the parents of girls who aren't in the top 9-11 "'their DD is getting better here than with another team" because it's often true. If a girl is good enough to be #13 or #14 on the best program in the area she'll learn far more than being #1 on a middle of the road program.

Not in my experience - and even if it is true - it is at expense of the girl PLAYING which is the whole purpose of being involved in the game. Also I have yet to see a team practice at any level that is SO good it beats out not having game experience or couldn't be better replaced with private/semi-private lessons (which these teams expect you to take as well).

In the USA your daughter is likely to play until she is either 14, end of high school or end of college. If she started at 8, that is a maximum of about 15 years of playing (which is pathetic but that is another topic). Suggesting she basically sit out and WATCH for a season so she can get better down the track while her friends are out there playing all the time for another team makes no sense to me. Practice is cool and all that - but it is the game that is the reward and if you are taking away the reward, well I am not sure why most girls would want to keep playing.

I am paying all that money because my DD enjoys softball - which means playing the game. If I am paying all that money to a team so she can sit on the bench as a #14 or #15 player because that team is 'the best' then who am I really spending the money on?

 

[MNDad]

In College/HS/18U Showcase/16U Showcase sure.. otherwise I stand by what I said.



Not in my experience - and even if it is true - it is at expense of the girl PLAYING which is the whole purpose of being involved in the game. Also I have yet to see a team practice at any level that is SO good it beats out not having game experience or couldn't be better replaced with private/semi-private lessons (which these teams expect you to take as well).

In the USA your daughter is likely to play until she is either 14, end of high school or end of college. If she started at 8, that is a maximum of about 15 years of playing (which is pathetic but that is another topic). Suggesting she basically sit out and WATCH for a season so she can get better down the track while her friends are out there playing all the time for another team makes no sense to me. Practice is cool and all that - but it is the game that is the reward and if you are taking away the reward, well I am not sure why most girls would want to keep playing.

I am paying all that money because my DD enjoys softball - which means playing the game. If I am paying all that money to a team so she can sit on the bench as a #14 or #15 player because that team is 'the best' then who am I really spending the money on?

We agree. I was talking about 16U-18U competetive teams. I should have clarified.

It depends on the girls goals. If she just wants to play softball any program will work. If she's thinking college she'll fare better playing with and against like minded girls and athletes who can push her. Even if she's not in the top 9-11.

 

[Jquick823]

The entire purpose of travel ball is "cut throat". On a roster of 12 there should be 7 nervous families this time of year. The ones lucky/good enough to be in the top 5 then can choose to move on to the bigger/better or stay where they are at. It's just what this sport has become.

 

[Dusty]

The entire purpose of travel ball is "cut throat". On a roster of 12 there should be 7 nervous families this time of year. The ones lucky/good enough to be in the top 5 then can choose to move on to the bigger/better or stay where they are at. It's just what this sport has become.

Sorry but I really couldn't disagree more. The whole purpose of travel ball on all levels is player development. Even on the high profile, PGF berth chasing, super cutthroat teams the players join with the expectation of development. Those players just expect the kind of player development that will prepare them for high level D1 college play while the lower level teams seek development for lower collegiate levels or even just high school ball.

There seems to be a conventional wisdom that the bottom of a travel teams roster should be shuffled out but what assurance does a travel coach have that the middle or top of his/her roster will come back every year? I see a few teams that are pretty decent in the fall, pick up a stud pitcher from a higher profile team she was disgruntled with along with a few other players and push the original fall roster to the bench. By the time nationals end the mercenaries have bolted and so has the original team and the coach gets nobody coming to tryouts.

 

[gophert]

We are experiencing this at the 12U level right now and I can say it is very painful. My DD was recruited mid-season by one of these upper level "A" teams to be a #3 pitcher to help out in a rotation. The team is an 02 team and she is an 03, but coaching staff felt she could provide a niche for what they wanted and this was her "dream team". She has worked extra hard and has been a contributor....not a bottom feeder..on the team ending the season the the 4th best batting average out of 11. She got the call from the coach that going forward, she would not be getting many pitching opportunities and wanted to up front with us going forward, but did indicate that he still felt she was a contributor on the team (batting and outfield). Let me say she has not pitched her best and I do see where the coach is coming from however that is a hard pill to swallow for a 12 yr old to have to decide if she wants to stay with a team knowing her pitching career may be coming to an end. Not only that, they now have the team tryout again and we are hoping they see enough value in her to keep her. She definitely holds her own on the team, but has not hit her growth spurt yet and we are hoping they will continue to see her potential. We let her make the decision and I believe she probably made the best decision which was....I want to be on this team and I will continue to work hard and when my opportunity arises in the future for more pitching time I will do my best to take advantage of that. Now as a bucket dad, that is hard, but a decision that most 12 yr olds don't make. I understand what it takes to be on one of these "college level" teams, but I can say I don't like it. I continue to look for life teaching moments. If she doesn't make it, we move on to the next team and chapter.

 

[csuttonthompson]

I coached 4 years at 10U and 12U, and I inherited probably 3-4 girls over that time who had what one of my parents would call the battle scars of 'cut-throat' teams.

The biggest complaint they (the players) had was that these teams would take pickup players or make unnecessary roster additions throughout the season. So you've gone through tryouts, winter workouts and 6 tournaments and think you've earned the starting job at 3B, and 6 months into the season, somebody you've just met is playing your spot. And if you were not happy about it, you're not a team player. It's a common way to sap the fun out of the game for 11-year-olds.

so true - ive seen way too many coaches do this - starting at 8U

 

[slingnit]

Sorry but I really couldn't disagree more. The whole purpose of travel ball on all levels is player development. Even on the high profile, PGF berth chasing, super cutthroat teams the players join with the expectation of development. Those players just expect the kind of player development that will prepare them for high level D1 college play while the lower level teams seek development for lower collegiate levels or even just high school ball.

There seems to be a conventional wisdom that the bottom of a travel teams roster should be shuffled out but what assurance does a travel coach have that the middle or top of his/her roster will come back every year? I see a few teams that are pretty decent in the fall, pick up a stud pitcher from a higher profile team she was disgruntled with along with a few other players and push the original fall roster to the bench. By the time nationals end the mercenaries have bolted and so has the original team and the coach gets nobody coming to tryouts.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. In the world of cut throat, PGF birth seeking, travel the country and play THE best competition possible development is one of the last things a kid should expect. Many of the players may only see the coaches and rest of the team on tournament weekends. Louisiana kids playing for SoCal teams or a Jersey girl play for southern Florida team,these situations are not rare at all. These teams are looking for kids that are developed and polished, with the exception of a pitcher that has a ton of upside. They are not out looking for diamonds in the rough that could help them after a season or two of development. On younger teams, 8u - 12u, you see teams that develop or attempt to develop players. To be honest most kids that excel at the sport develop their skills away from the team they play for. There is usually a mom, dad, pitching/hitting coach that is spending numerous hours of one on one time with the kid.

 

[MNDad]

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. In the world of cut throat, PGF birth seeking, travel the country and play THE best competition possible development is one of the last things a kid should expect. Many of the players may only see the coaches and rest of the team on tournament weekends. Louisiana kids playing for SoCal teams or a Jersey girl play for southern Florida team,these situations are not rare at all. These teams are looking for kids that are developed and polished, with the exception of a pitcher that has a ton of upside. They are not out looking for diamonds in the rough that could help them after a season or two of development. On younger teams, 8u - 12u, you see teams that develop or attempt to develop players. To be honest most kids that excel at the sport develop their skills away from the team they play for. There is usually a mom, dad, pitching/hitting coach that is spending numerous hours of one on one time with the kid.

Some might have a different definition of development. The sole reason DD is playing on a team seeking the best possible competition is to prepare for college. As far as skills development she gained much of hers through the club organizations she's played for. I think you're right that's not the norm though.

 

[Easton33]

Coaches vs Managers.
Cut throat teams are Manager driven. As in they don't really care about player development and the win for the organization (or manager) is the top priority.

Teams that are not cut throat are usually focused on a core group. The core being any number of players. While you may not be in the core group this type of team will work to develop your player because they are working to develop their core players as well. So even though your dd my not be the in the core and may have to find a new home next season, she will at least benefit from the coaching.

This is inclusive of the 10u, 12, 14, and some 16u. At some point though 16u/18u, I think it should go to cutthroat and let the girls showcase their years of development with a Manager. Just my .02

 

[SoCalASABlue]

It works to tell the parents of girls who aren't in the top 9-11 "'their DD is getting better here than with another team" because it's often true. If a girl is good enough to be #13 or #14 on the best program in the area she'll learn far more than being #1 on a middle of the road program.

A few years back, DD's team played one of the 7,256 Firecrackers "franchises" in a 16U tournament. The FC team had 5 girls that sat on the bench the whole game. One of my coaches asked the FC coach about the 5 on the bench and whether they were injured. The FC coach said those girls are "legacies" but will only get into a game as a pinch runner - and they and their parents (paying $$$ a month in dues and uniform rental fees) are OK with it.

Sorry - but that's just f'ing stupid...MHO...