WHIP Calculations

[diamond14]

With regard to strikeouts: DD pitching coach (who had phenomenal success D1 college, was college coach, played the pro league and was invited to Olympic tryouts {just so readers know this wassnt some dad who coached a rec team}), always used the metric of 1/3 to 1/2 strikeout range. Meaning if you are striking out over 1/2 the batters, as a pitcher you are not being challenged enough by the batters. If you are striking out less than 1/3 most likely you are facing competition better than your pitching skills. I found it to be a pretty good metric that held up as you watched a weekends worth of tournament games. You generally got the same feel from the team about their overall ablility vs your team based on that guideline.
Would be interesting to conduct a study of NCAA games to see if it holds up? Hey Pattar, any way we could get a federal grant to study this thru your college???

 

[mel77]

Glad I asked! Our daughter is 1st year 12u and has a great strike %, but more kids are able to hit off her than our #1 (who has a lower strike %, but pitches 5mph faster). But probably 75% of those hits are weak/infield and results in an out at 1st base or caught ball. My husband thinks that those hits are a bad thing, but I keep telling my daughter that as long as they aren't slugging them to outfield its still good.

Weak contact and pop ups are great especially if you have a good defense. More efficient too if you can get them out with one pitch vs 3!

I became a good pitcher when I stopped trying to make them miss the ball and started trying to make them hit it.
Sandy Koufax

 

[CoachJD]

With regard to strikeouts: DD pitching coach (who had phenomenal success D1 college, was college coach, played the pro league and was invited to Olympic tryouts {just so readers know this wassnt some dad who coached a rec team}), always used the metric of 1/3 to 1/2 strikeout range. Meaning if you are striking out over 1/2 the batters, as a pitcher you are not being challenged enough by the batters. If you are striking out less than 1/3 most likely you are facing competition better than your pitching skills. I found it to be a pretty good metric that held up as you watched a weekends worth of tournament games. You generally got the same feel from the team about their overall ablility vs your team based on that guideline.

I've never heard this before, but I like the concept at least. I'm not sure how we could really study it to know what "too good for the level" and "not good enough" strikeout rates would be other than looking at other stats, too.

I also wonder if the percentages change based on the level. I'm thinking that you need to strike out more hitters at lower levels to truly be ready for the next level since it's easier to strike batters out. The 1/2 and 1/3 rules may not apply across the board.

 

[PDM]

Glad I asked! Our daughter is 1st year 12u and has a great strike %, but more kids are able to hit off her than our #1 (who has a lower strike %, but pitches 5mph faster). But probably 75% of those hits are weak/infield and results in an out at 1st base or caught ball. My husband thinks that those hits are a bad thing, but I keep telling my daughter that as long as they aren't slugging them to outfield its still good.

Getting a batter out, whether a strikeout, or on a caught fly ball, or on a ground ball fielded and thrown to first base (or to another base to get a runner on a force play) all count the same and are all a good thing.

 

[PDM]

Weak contact and pop ups are great especially if you have a good defense. More efficient too if you can get them out with one pitch vs 3!

I became a good pitcher when I stopped trying to make them miss the ball and started trying to make them hit it.
Sandy Koufax

I always loved that Koufax quote.

 

[schwabach]

With regard to strikeouts: DD pitching coach (who had phenomenal success D1 college, was college coach, played the pro league and was invited to Olympic tryouts {just so readers know this wassnt some dad who coached a rec team}), always used the metric of 1/3 to 1/2 strikeout range. Meaning if you are striking out over 1/2 the batters, as a pitcher you are not being challenged enough by the batters. If you are striking out less than 1/3 most likely you are facing competition better than your pitching skills. I found it to be a pretty good metric that held up as you watched a weekends worth of tournament games. You generally got the same feel from the team about their overall ablility vs your team based on that guideline.
Would be interesting to conduct a study of NCAA games to see if it holds up? Hey Pattar, any way we could get a federal grant to study this thru your college???

This is certainly true until you get to the top teams. I think it is especially good advice for parents who think their daughter is the GOAT. At the end of the day, I think the games I enjoyed the most is when my daughter allowed mostly fieldable contact and the fielders did their job - that whole team concept.

I don't think anybody would suggest that Montana Fouts with 15 Ks in a game wasn't facing worthy batters.

 

[bmakj]

She sprained her ankle right before season started so has only pitched 4 leave games this season.

Game 1: 61.4% strike percentage, 16 batters faced: 7 strike outs, 1 HBP, 1 walk, 1 drop 3rd, 6 batters hit (5 hit ball but out, 1 hit and got to 1st)

Game 2: 76% strike percent, 11 batters faced: 6 strike outs, 5 batters hit (2 hit but out, 1 hit/on base but later got out stealing, 2 batter hit and got on- resulting in one run.)

Game 3 (in rain): 54% strike percentage, 23 batters faced: 7 strike outs, 8 batters hit (4 got on base, 4 hit but got out) 1 HBP, 7 walks (5 of those 7 on full count)

Game 4 (pitched 2 of 3 innings): 63% strike percentage, 7 batters faced: 3 strike outs, 4 batters hit (3 hit but got out, 1 got on base)

So....looks like a little less than half are strike outs. But since she was injured I don't have many data points for this season yet.

FIFY

Game 1: 8 Ks, 1 HBP, 1 BB, 1 Hit allowed, looks like 5 innings to me, 0.4 WHIP (1 BB + 1 Hit / 5 innings)

Game 2: 6 Ks, 2 hits, 1 run, sounds like 3 innings, 0.66 WHIP (2 hits / 3 innings)

Game 3 : 7 Ks, 4 hits, 7 BB, 1 HBP, sounds like about 4 innings, 2.75 WHIP

Game 4 (pitched 2 innings): 3 Ks, 1 hit, 2 innings, 0.5 WHIP

Total 14 innings, 8 hits, 8 BB, 1.14 WHIP, anything under 1 is generally considered excellent, so pretty good numbers. thinking is if P can limit offense to one BR in an inning, unlikely to score (possible though, lead off gets on, steals 2nd, sac bunt to 3, long sac fly to score). that is why to me the other thing that is critical is how they fare against first batter of each inning. you keep them off, way ahead of the game.

WHIP is simple, Walks and Hits per Inning pitched

 

[diamond14]

I threw the strikeout "guideline" merely as that, a guide. Having gone thru 5 years of TB and 4 (well 3+ with corona), I think as a roadmap it applies to alot of the pitchers I have seen. As an example in our area, there are two HS teams I follow closely with pitchers who are going D1. Their teams are in contention to win state titles and I assert that it is primarily (not entirely, as it is a team sport) due to their pitching. As I've watched them over the years thru regular season and playoffs their strikeout totals for games seem to follow this rule. Playing better teams lowers that strikeout total. Watching them in TB games I can see the changes in strikeout pattern, but not knowing the competition level makes it harder to make any claims.
To test the premise, I suggest that 4 other members of DFP be awarded $22.3 million to take a year to review NCAA game film and find the correlation between strikeout totals, strength of schedule etc. Compared to some of the federal funding nonsense, this sounds like a winner!

 

[schwabach]

I guess it ends up being a "gut feel" sort of thing. If a pitcher is striking out almost all batters and there is a higher level at which they can play, then they should move up. If a pitcher is already at the highest level and they are still striking out a lot of batters, then they are a super stars. And even the best pitchers have good days and not so good days.

But your guideline is a good remember for parents who think they have the next Jennie Finch when in reality, their daughter is not facing enough good batters.

Same concept goes for hitting. Let's see how Oklahoma does in the super regionals and WCWS.

 

[uncdrew]

Glad I asked! Our daughter is 1st year 12u and has a great strike %, but more kids are able to hit off her than our #1 (who has a lower strike %, but pitches 5mph faster). But probably 75% of those hits are weak/infield and results in an out at 1st base or caught ball. My husband thinks that those hits are a bad thing, but I keep telling my daughter that as long as they aren't slugging them to outfield its still good.

Believe it or not, you want your pitcher to let the other team hit the ball.

A pitcher that feels they need to strikeout every batter won't last long. Giving up weak hits is the name of the game. Getting out of innings in less than 10 pitches is gold.