rollover drop - four seam vs two seam grip

[fastpitch91]

ok first bear with me and focus on the rollover drop. ( ie not debate roll over vs peel for the moment.

I had a new student come to me and ask for help on her drop. Her instructor had her throwing a rollover with a traditional fourseam fastball grip. Not something I had ever taught but, Not wanting to be closed minded I wonder what thoughts are on this.

seems awful hard to get a good vertical rotation with the four seam grip as the finger positon and the seams just don't go that ways unless maybe the pitch is more of a drop curve.

When i teach rollover I teach pronating ( facing away) the arm/wrist like on a rise ball but coming over the top with the fingers.

so two seam or four seam rollover drop ? pluses minuses?

thanks

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Hmmm ... I know you didn't want to debate roll-over vs peel ... so let's not debate roll-over vs peel ... but at the same time, do recognize that a 4-seam works just fine for a peel, and also recognize that a roll-over is basically a peel.

 

[starsnuffer]

Grip is inconsequential. How much downward 6-12 spin is she able to put on the ball? How is her velocity compared to her fastball? Is she hitting her corners with it?

If she can spin faster with a different grip, and maintain speed and accuracy, great, go for it. . .just keep in mind that 4 seams digging into the wind will move the ball twice as much as 2 seams digging into the wind.

-W

 

[BoardMember]

Hmmm ... I know you didn't want to debate roll-over vs peel ... so let's not debate roll-over vs peel ... but at the same time, do recognize that a 4-seam works just fine for a peel, and also recognize that a roll-over is basically a peel.

This is SO TRUE it's not even funny...........

 

[sluggers]

Sorry, BM and FFS, but you are wrong. It is pretty clear from the pictures of my DD's release that the peel and the roll-over work quite differently. The peel works by the the fingers "flipping" the ball to spin it. The roll over works by the pitcher using IR to spin the ball. The mechanics are not even close.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Sluggers, there is no need to be sorry. Let's see the video. So far everyone that has shown me video of their roll-over drop has ended up peeling the ball. I'm up for being convinced differently.

 

[sluggers]

Here are the frames. Someone was asking how to throw a rollover, so I did a video of her throwing a drop. She grasps the ball in her fingertips and then rapidly rotates her wrist using IR to spin the ball like you would spin a top.

<a href="http://share.ovi.com/media/ratwod.softball/ratwod.12520"><img src="http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/lt/3034/68391a8df6b74a90a8d4e60bd2ecd458.jpg" border="0" title="drop-sequence - Share on Ovi" alt="drop-sequence - Share on Ovi" width="280" height="23" /></a>

I think most pitchers have mediocre to poor drop balls. Check out the stats from the NFCA showcase: http://www.revfire.com/files/2010_NFCA_Showcase_RevFire_Spin_Performance.pdf Look at how few girls can get more than 25 RPS on a drop as compared to screws rises. I believe the data shows that girls are *not* being taught how to throw effective drop balls.

 

[coachdan]

I believe that the peel is nothing more that a fastball with a earlier release point creating a downward angle at release.

The Rollover as it is called......You are pulling up on the back of the ball causing the downward spin and yes your hand rolls over but it is after the release of the ball. Most pitcher think that are rolling over the top and down the front of the ball but thats not what happens, it maybe what the pitcher is attempting to do but not what happens.

You can see this in Sluggers pictures look at picture 3 and 4 ball is gone before hand is rolled over.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here are the frames. Someone was asking how to throw a rollover, so I did a video of her throwing a drop. She grasps the ball in her fingertips and then rapidly rotates her wrist using IR to spin the ball like you would spin a top.

<a onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'Outgoing', 'share.ovi.com', '/media/ratwod.softball/ratwod.12520']);" href="http://share.ovi.com/media/ratwod.softball/ratwod.12520"><img src="http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/lt/3034/68391a8df6b74a90a8d4e60bd2ecd458.jpg" border="0" title="drop-sequence - Share on Ovi" alt="drop-sequence - Share on Ovi" width="280" height="23" /></a>

I think most pitchers have mediocre to poor drop balls. Check out the stats from the NFCA showcase: http://www.revfire.com/files/2010_NFCA_Showcase_RevFire_Spin_Performance.pdf Look at how few girls can get more than 25 RPS on a drop as compared to screws rises. I believe the data shows that girls are *not* being taught how to throw effective drop balls.

Sluggers ... technically this is a peel. Note that the ball releases with a peeling action, well ahead of the forced wrist rollover action.

 

[Jojo]

Sluggers ... technically this is a peel. Note that the ball releases with a peeling action, well ahead of the forced wrist rollover action.

I call this a peel-over.