Pictures of pitchers feet

[cuzmail]

http://louisvilleleopards.org/wp-content/gallery/louisville-vs-copley-softball-3-19-2011/dsc09425.jpg[/IMG]

Was that a drag to that point or a leap?

I would like to see a video of a pitcher with a hitch in her motion that allows for a replant/push and still maintain timing. That would have to be super obvious like a glaring red flag?

I have certainly seen crow hoppers, just never someone that could do it with a drag. It has always been a vertical elevation of the pivot foot.

 

[GI Tom]

Was that a drag to that point or a leap?

I would like to see a video of a pitcher with a hitch in her motion that allows for a replant/push and still maintain timing. That would have to be super obvious like a glaring red flag?

I have certainly seen crow hoppers, just never someone that could do it with a drag. It has always been a vertical elevation of the pivot foot.

There's one in this video that gets close. You want to see some illegal pitching, have fun with this one.

Illegal pitches.wmv - YouTube

And by the way, for the record, if a coach attempts to show me a video or photos while I'm on the field, I treat it like bringing a rule book out on the field and opening it up. You get exactly 1 chance to put it away quick fast and in a hurry after I ask you to before you'll likely have plenty of time to look at the videos and photos yourself in your car in the parking lot. If it's parents trying to show me outside of the fence, before or after a game, I would politely decline and move on.

I will say, I've only ever heard one time of someone yelling at me (this was last year) "Blue, come look! I recorded it on my I-Pad!!" (from a parent) on a banger at 1B while I was BU. I of course ignored it as it was a parent firstly and she was about 8-10 rows back yelling it. I bet that I-Pad had some super zoom lens on it considering she was about 80-100 feet away, elevated, behind and at about a 119 degree angle and through a net.

 

[JDBerry]

Was that a drag to that point or a leap?

I would like to see a video of a pitcher with a hitch in her motion that allows for a replant/push and still maintain timing. That would have to be super obvious like a glaring red flag?

I have certainly seen crow hoppers, just never someone that could do it with a drag. It has always been a vertical elevation of the pivot foot.

it's reportedly a drag. but the mechanics are the same. whether the foot goes vertical some or is just dragged horizontal doesn't matter. the advantage comes with the secondary push off.

If you are in the K position with your front foot in the air and your back foot digging in to get a push 1-2' out in front of the plate ... I really don't care what it's called. it simply does not fit the spirit of what is intended to be a correct pitch.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Both violations framed around after the push off the rubber but before the release of the ball

"Leap" is simply both feet above the plane of the ground at the same time.

My simplified rendition for determining a "Crow-Hop" is : DOES THE PIVOT FOOT EVER STOP MOVING FROM A CONTACT POINT TO THE GROUND? (This could be a foot-bottom OR a toe,... which some of the more sneaky IP-ers do....) Then it is a crow-hop.


A great violator of the latter here is Wisconsin's Meghan McIntosh. In my softball world of applying the rules as-is, she gets called for IP every time (but her foot does not leave the plane of the ground) - sorry no vid....

This IP world is so screwed up that the "expert" tv announcers can't even get it right. They all seem to focus so much more on the leaping aspect. I have seen more than a few times this year when a pitcher is leaping AND crow-hopping at the same time the announcers can ONLY see the leap. This frustrates the crud out of me as I still believe the leap does not mean any advantage and the crow-hop IS an advantage.

(but I like to over-analyze too ;-) )

 

[cuzmail]

There's one in this video that gets close. You want to see some illegal pitching, have fun with this one.

Illegal pitches.wmv - YouTube

And by the way, for the record, if a coach attempts to show me a video or photos while I'm on the field, I treat it like bringing a rule book out on the field and opening it up. You get exactly 1 chance to put it away quick fast and in a hurry after I ask you to before you'll likely have plenty of time to look at the videos and photos yourself in your car in the parking lot. If it's parents trying to show me outside of the fence, before or after a game, I would politely decline and move on.

I will say, I've only ever heard one time of someone yelling at me (this was last year) "Blue, come look! I recorded it on my I-Pad!!" (from a parent) on a banger at 1B while I was BU. I of course ignored it as it was a parent firstly and she was about 8-10 rows back yelling it. I bet that I-Pad had some super zoom lens on it considering she was about 80-100 feet away, elevated, behind and at about a 119 degree angle and through a net.

Interesting video, but like you said no secondary replant/push offs. Looks like a bunch of leapers with vertical elevation of thier pivot foot to me.

It is funny how they show the full body of the pitchers for everyone but Traina. They only show her lower half in an attempt to hide her identity?

 

[cuzmail]

it's reportedly a drag. but the mechanics are the same. whether the foot goes vertical some or is just dragged horizontal doesn't matter. the advantage comes with the secondary push off.

If you are in the K position with your front foot in the air and your back foot digging in to get a push 1-2' out in front of the plate ... I really don't care what it's called. it simply does not fit the spirit of what is intended to be a correct pitch.

Completely agree. I just can't get my head around a replant and push without vertical elevation.

 

[Mylil32]

Yes, there are and have been "lanes" for quite a while in all games. Just because you do not see chalk doesn't mean they are not there.

Well, whatever. I personally think if they are going to call that on an 11 year old, they should probably put lanes somewhere!

 

[BretMan]

^^^^^^^^^

OK, great start. Not sure I agree (with these definitions of a crow hop or leap) but....

The definitions given were the definitions straight from the rule book.

 

[BretMan]

An official ASA interpretation, published on their website May 2012:

For the past few months or so we have been asked about a pitching style called a “Push, Drag, Push” or a “Crow Drag in Women’s and Junior Olympic Fast Pitch. This is described as a pitcher that pushes from the pitcher’s plate, drags her pivot foot, stops and pushes again. We have been told that there are some indicators like a bent leg or the pivot foot bearing weight as a factor in this style of pitching. We have looked at several videos and several pitchers. We disagree that any of these pitchers are pushing, dragging, stopping and pushing again. We can see what appears to be a pivot by the pivot foot at the end of their delivery but not a re-push.

Nowhere in the ASA rules does it state anything illegal about the pivot foot bearing weight or the leg being bent. As long as the pivot foot starts on the pitcher's plate and pushes away, remains on the ground within the 24-inch width of the pitcher's plate and the arm continues without stopping in the delivery, it is a legal pitch. The pitcher opening her hips causes the foot to turn (pivot mark in the dirt) and then with pivot foot remaining on the ground (drag mark), the pitcher then closes her hips which produces another pivot mark in the dirt. This is not an illegal pitch by ASA pitching rules. We would also add, it is not possible to push, drag, stop and re-push while the non-pivot foot is in the air. It is possible to re-push if you leap and land.

 

[MTR]

We have had the fortune of seeing a fair amount of Cat pitching and her giving DD pitching instruction with examples (performing the pitch). I have never noticed what you describe. Video example?

No, it's been years, she was still at Texas. Even one of the talking heads on ESPN hesitated when they showed her delivery in slow motion. I was shocked when I first saw it, because it seemed very unlikely. For as much as I know, it may not have even been intentional, but with the direction of the spray, I don't think there was much doubt that the toe was getting a second push