Need help with tiebreaker scenario

[CPEM]

Tiebreakers are as follows:
1) Head-to-Head
2) Runs allowed
3) Runs for
4) Coin flip
That's all that was listed.

Teams A, B, and C finished 1-1 in pool play.

Team A beat Team B.
Team B beat Team C.
Team A and Team C did not play each other.

Team A runs allowed = 14
Team B runs allowed = 6
Team C runs allowed = 4

How are they seeded?

 

[Jr10234]

runs allowed. Head to head goes out the window in a three way tie.

 

[Coachw01]

I would see this a little different. I believe Team A goes number 1 because head to head they beat Team B which you stated was the number one criteria. Having said that, team B has to go ahead of Team C for the same reason. I understand all of the arguments about the teams not playing each other BUT this is a decision based on criteria and when that's how the criteria reads it must be followed. I do not agree that with a three way tie head to head goes out the window UNLESS there is a round robin situation between the three 1-1 teams then it goes to the 2nd criteria. But because there are clear head to head winners I believe Team A gets the one seed.

 

[marriard]

I would see this a little different. I believe Team A goes number 1 because head to head they beat Team B which you stated was the number one criteria. Having said that, team B has to go ahead of Team C for the same reason. I understand all of the arguments about the teams not playing each other BUT this is a decision based on criteria and when that's how the criteria reads it must be followed. I do not agree that with a three way tie head to head goes out the window UNLESS there is a round robin situation between the three 1-1 teams then it goes to the 2nd criteria. But because there are clear head to head winners I believe Team A gets the one seed.

Not unless it is stated that way in the tournament/org rule books. All major orgs will have it spelled out exactly.

For example, here is the Florida USSSA seeding criteria - they specifically address this situation because it happens all the time:

1) Winning Percentage
(Win = 2 points, Tie = 1 point, Loss = 0 points)
NOTE: 2 Ties = 1 Win (Florida USSSA Fastpitch)
2) Head-to-head if 2 teams are tied with same winning %
No head-to-head when 3 or more teams are tied in seeding
3) Fewest Runs Allowed
4) Most Runs Scored (it is max 15 per game counts no matter how many you score - which is stated elsewhere in their rules)
5) Coin flip

BTW, my experience has been the above criteria works well and produces the least complaints

 

[Coachw01]

Not unless it is stated that way in the tournament/org rule books. All major orgs will have it spelled out exactly.

For example, here is the Florida USSSA seeding criteria - they specifically address this situation because it happens all the time:

1) Winning Percentage
(Win = 2 points, Tie = 1 point, Loss = 0 points)
NOTE: 2 Ties = 1 Win (Florida USSSA Fastpitch)
2) Head-to-head if 2 teams are tied with same winning %
No head-to-head when 3 or more teams are tied in seeding
3) Fewest Runs Allowed
4) Most Runs Scored (it is max 15 per game counts no matter how many you score - which is stated elsewhere in their rules)
5) Coin flip

BTW, my experience has been the above criteria works well and produces the least complaints

That makes great sense to me if it's spelled out that way. Sure seems pretty cut and dry when things are spelled out specifically. Too bad it seems like the situation above didn't have those procedures in place.

 

[CPEM]

That makes great sense to me if it's spelled out that way. Sure seems pretty cut and dry when things are spelled out specifically. Too bad it seems like the situation above didn't have those procedures in place.

Yep, learning experience for the tournament director. He got it mostly right, as the top 2 seeds had to play each other, and he had them transposed. The bottom seed (Team A) didn't think it was correct. Nobody wanted to play that 8am game.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Tiebreakers are as follows:
1) Head-to-Head
2) Runs allowed
3) Runs for
4) Coin flip
That's all that was listed.

Teams A, B, and C finished 1-1 in pool play.

Team A beat Team B.
Team B beat Team C.
Team A and Team C did not play each other.

Team A runs allowed = 14
Team B runs allowed = 6
Team C runs allowed = 4

How are they seeded?

#1 C
#2 A
#3 B

Why?

When 3 teams are tied, the 1st tiebreaker is runs allowed. That's C. At that point, you no longer have a 3-way tie. You have a 2-way tie now and A beat B head-to-head, so despite allowing more runs on the day, A should be the higher seed.

This is debated at tournament tables every single weekend.

 

[Jquick823]

We had this situation this weekend. 2,3,4 seeds were all tied at 1-2 in pool play and all had played each other.

A beat B but lost to C
B Beat C but lost to A
C beat A but lost to B
D beat all of them

Head to head went out the window. Runs against was the only tie breaker needed to determine the seeding.

In USSSA up in the north east our last tie breaker is usually USSSA points which i don't agree with, but if you need the 8th tiebreaker play better softball.