Unsportsmanlike spectrum: you decide

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

I wasn't talking about the umpire's authority to eject a coach for arguing. I'm talking about how people want to cover some of these unique situations with the "unsporting conduct" or "spirit of the game" rules. I don't want an umpire to have to judge whether something was in violation of the "spirit of the game" because, as is clear by these discussions, everyone has a different opinion on that sort of thing.

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Yes. This was pretty much the point of this silly thread. All of the plays are things that happen all the time. Anyone who chose b,c, or d for any of them would have to be prepared as an ump to eject. I assumed folks would have all kinds of opinions, and they did, just like the cutting 3b thread.

 

[daywalkerdad]

If someone shoots the opposing team's players, I'm guessing we're not concerned about the umpire ejecting that person.

I wasn't talking about the umpire's authority to eject a coach for arguing. I'm talking about how people want to cover some of these unique situations with the "unsporting conduct" or "spirit of the game" rules. I don't want an umpire to have to judge whether something was in violation of the "spirit of the game" because, as is clear by these discussions, everyone has a different opinion on that sort of thing.

Going back to that play where the coach taught his players to cut the corner by a good 10 feet, if we all think that type of move is so wrong that umpires should have the power to act on it, then make a rule that says runners can never deviate from a path that is x feet from a straight line between two bases. Don't assume (or hope?) that umpires think a play like that is unsporting conduct.

I think you missed the man in Blue’s point. It is impossible to name all the non sporting rules.
The rule book does a decent outline.
f. The coach shall master the contest rules and shall teach them to his or her team members. The coach shall not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules.
a. The coach shall be aware that he or she has a tremendous influence, for either good or ill, on the education of the student and, thus, shall never place the value of winning above the value of instilling the highest ideals of character.

By stating a mastery of the rules ignorance is not an excuse. Anytime a team is purposely breaking the rules it is unsportsmanlike. Enforcement up to the official.

 

[Strike2]

Nope, only when the rules say you become a BR. It is on the offensive player to know the situation. Hopefully the catcher throws down to 1st and gets the base runner when this deception is tried.

Why would the catcher throw to first in that situation?

 

[_MIA_]

Why would the catcher throw to first in that situation?

I assume to get the runner going to 2b but yeah throwing behind the runner isn’t too bright

 

[The Man In Blue]

LOL, I spit out my coffee.
MIB has been saying the opposite all week. Must be over 20 times now that you can quote "I am not 100% sure" or "not covered by a rule".

I can see how one would see it that way. The rule book is an intricate web of subtleties and nuances.

There is a difference between “Oh come on, that’s got to be illegal somehow!” and “Oh come on, that’s illegal by this [insert misapplied rule].”

I will say, as the conversation progressed and as I did more research, my opinion has changed slightly on the cutting third base incident. It seems to me this play has been popularized enough on the internet (more than just this one softball incidence) and weighed in on by a few state associations … I am inclined to go with an immediate ejection for both player and coach. No warning (which I initially stated without knowing intent). I still do not have the authority to erase the run without an appeal though.

Edit to add: When I say “I am not 100% sure” I hope people keep reading to see what I found out, as that means I have an initial reaction but am researching to support or refute my position. There are plenty of times when I am wrong.

 

[CoachJD]

I think you missed the man in Blue’s point. It is impossible to name all the non sporting rules.
The rule book does a decent outline.
f. The coach shall master the contest rules and shall teach them to his or her team members. The coach shall not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules.
a. The coach shall be aware that he or she has a tremendous influence, for either good or ill, on the education of the student and, thus, shall never place the value of winning above the value of instilling the highest ideals of character.

By stating a mastery of the rules ignorance is not an excuse. Anytime a team is purposely breaking the rules it is unsportsmanlike. Enforcement up to the official.

Who decides what is "the spirit" of the rules? The umpire? Even though every single umpire on earth would have a slightly different interpretation of that? Nah, don't like that one bit.

I didn't miss his point. I disagreed with it.

If something is that unsporting, put it in the rules. It's actually not impossible to do. Put in all the big stuff, don't worry about the little stuff. And if the little stuff becomes big stuff, make a rule for it.

 

[daywalkerdad]

Who decides what is "the spirit" of the rules? The umpire? Even though every single umpire on earth would have a slightly different interpretation of that? Nah, don't like that one bit.

I didn't miss his point. I disagreed with it.

If something is that unsporting, put it in the rules. It's actually not impossible to do. Put in all the big stuff, don't worry about the little stuff. And if the little stuff becomes big stuff, make a rule for it.

Spirit and letter of the rules are legal terms. Spirit refers to intent of the rules. The coach should teach both the intent and letter of the rules.
People come up with new stuff all the time. The ump needs the ability to rule on something no one has never seen before.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Been sidelining myself on some of the conversations, but I did want to weigh in on a "fake tag." I've only ever issued warnings on this for little dalliances until this year. I had a full-blown one this past middle school baseball season.

Batter cranks one to right field, sees the right fielder misplay it, and rounds for second. The ball is well past the right fielder now, and I'm preparing to get out of my set up at second when I see the short stop start to apply a "tag" and the runner begin his slide. The runner slides in, pops up, and sees or hears his coach yelling, so he hightails it over to third base. The ball gets to third as he is already standing there catching his breath.

I call time, have a short conversation with the shortstop, and we continue the game. Later the coach asks what that was all about, and he appreciates the way it was handled.

It is obstruction as it causes the runner to alter his/her actions. I didn't enforce anything because the runner was clearly going to get where he was going anyway (no, he wasn't going to make it home -- yes this is an improper mechanic on my part) and this was middle-school. I did make sure the player and coach knew what happened and what the penalty should have been.

Holding a fake tag on a runner on a base can have the same effect. Glove-popping and deking are not the same unless it causes runner to react and change his actions.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Who decides what is "the spirit" of the rules? The umpire? Even though every single umpire on earth would have a slightly different interpretation of that? Nah, don't like that one bit.

I didn't miss his point. I disagreed with it.

If something is that unsporting, put it in the rules. It's actually not impossible to do. Put in all the big stuff, don't worry about the little stuff. And if the little stuff becomes big stuff, make a rule for it.

I have to respectfully return the spit-take on these.

Don't like the umpires making calls ... neither do the parents.

Put in everything ... except that stuff.

 

[flash277]

I have to respectfully return the spit-take on these.

Don't like the umpires making calls ... neither do the parents.

Put in everything ... except that stuff.

@The Man In Blue have you ever tossed a coach or player for unsporting conduct?