Looking for fastpitch instructor in Chicagoland west

[MidwestFastpitchDad]

Out of curiosity, what is the criticism of Tincher instruction?

I’m curious about this as well. Despite looking on google and even on here, what pitching styles or methods exist,
I have not been able to find a comparison. I asked some women that I know through my job, who incidentally, were taught by Jill Waldron, they explained it as where the body starts and finishes. Hips and shoulders forward finish is how they described tincher

 

[MidwestFastpitchDad]

Scratch that. I finally searched “tincher” and found lots of threads, but I didn’t find what made it different or better or worse. I did discover some passionate opinions.

 

[CoachJD]

Out of curiosity, what is the criticism of Tincher instruction?

I think Tincher doesn't teach (or emphasize) brush. I'm not entirely sure though.

 

[Northball]

I think Tincher doesn't teach (or emphasize) brush. I'm not entirely sure though.

My DD had a few lessons (~5-7) from a Tincher Coach later in her career. No mention of brush/release point, probably wasn't needed at that point. More emphasis on speeding up the motion and exploding off the rubber. Fire those leg muscles to get out fast and squeeze the glutes to finish hard. It did add a couple mph. TC also had DD change from a 4-seam to 2 seam "fastball". The explanation I got from TC for using 2-seam was to capitalize on the long muscles(?)/tendons(?) in the hand/wrist/arm. Keep the two strong fingers engaged on the seams longer to propel the ball and generate spin. I believe there was more emphasis on increasing velocity and not as much concern on generating drop. Personally I lean towards Pauly that the 4-seam is better for the bread-and-butter pitch. 4-seams to cut through the air inducing more drop with proper 12-6 rotation.

I'm watching another 12U student of TC who throws hard but is still wild as heck. No brush, rarely whips; a violent catapult. She also has been changed over from 4-seam to 2-seam. Flat pitches all over the place. In fairness to TC, I don't think this student has been in for many lessons.
I have a DK ball and would like to experiment by having this girl throw 2-seamers and 4-seamers to measure differences in spin rate.

 

[CoachJD]

My DD had a few lessons (~5-7) from a Tincher Coach later in her career. No mention of brush/release point, probably wasn't needed at that point. More emphasis on speeding up the motion and exploding off the rubber. Fire those leg muscles to get out fast and squeeze the glutes to finish hard. It did add a couple mph. TC also had DD change from a 4-seam to 2 seam "fastball". The explanation I got from TC for using 2-seam was to capitalize on the long muscles(?)/tendons(?) in the hand/wrist/arm. Keep the two strong fingers engaged on the seams longer to propel the ball and generate spin. I believe there was more emphasis on increasing velocity and not as much concern on generating drop. Personally I lean towards Pauly that the 4-seam is better for the bread-and-butter pitch. 4-seams to cut through the air inducing more drop with proper 12-6 rotation.

I'm watching another 12U student of TC who throws hard but is still wild as heck. No brush, rarely whips; a violent catapult. She also has been changed over from 4-seam to 2-seam. Flat pitches all over the place. In fairness to TC, I don't think this student has been in for many lessons.
I have a DK ball and would like to experiment by having this girl throw 2-seamers and 4-seamers to measure differences in spin rate.

My criticism of the TC based on your description is that it sounds like focusing on 4-seam or 2-seam is kind of missing the point if the pitcher's mechanics are not strong.

I've known good pitching coaches who believe in brush but didn't necessarily talk about it a lot, but I'm not sure if the TCs even think it's necessary.

 

[Northball]

My criticism of the TC based on your description is that it sounds like focusing on 4-seam or 2-seam is kind of missing the point if the pitcher's mechanics are not strong.

I've known good pitching coaches who believe in brush but didn't necessarily talk about it a lot, but I'm not sure if the TCs even think it's necessary.

Just had lessons with two girls tonight, ages 9 and 11. I can't fathom teaching without brush trigger involved.

 

[Hillhouse]

Just had lessons with two girls tonight, ages 9 and 11. I can't fathom teaching without brush trigger involved.

Well, uh oh. I'm behind it all. I don't think I've ever used those words "brush trigger" together. Or brush interference. But I read about on here quite a bit.

I met Jonathan Hon last year, we were both guest clinicians at a University of Washington camp. He is such a nice guy. And the above poster eluded to it but, yes he's a legit rocket scientist with his background. There was a very large disparity in IQ's when he and I had breakfast at the hotel, no question about it. And no, that's not sarcasm. He mentioned that he was "Tincher certified" but I don't really understand what that means entirely. Although he only mentioned it in passing, it wasn't something he talked a lot about.

Living in Omaha these days, it's not uncommon for an Illinois kid to come here for a weekend, doing 3 or 4 lessons over 2.5 days or so. One girl I saw was a Jonathan Hon student. I believed she had a good foundation to her mechanics, it wasn't like she was Hello Elbow trained and we'd have to start over.

Midwestfastpitchdad, you can do a process of elimination pretty easily when seeking a coach by just asking them how they teach the pitch follow through. To a small degree, I think the word is getting out about "Hello Elbow" and it's slowly being eradicated. So, there's a chance a coach won't say they teach H/E because of that. So, you may wanna just watch a session if the coach will allow it to see what they are teaching and what the student is doing. Hello Elbow mechanics are easy to spot even if they don't say the magic words of "hello elbow".

While I haven't seen much from her lately, Jennie Finch might be one of the bigger die hard H/E advocates. And she'll show you her Olympic medals if challenged about right and wrong mechanics. But, I would be really curious if she ever did a deep dive on her own mechanics to see what she teaches vs. what she actually does/did in her pitching. I'm guessing she hasn't. If she had, and was honest with herself about what she's seeing, it would force a very uncomfortable reality. Don't get me wrong, I like Jennie. She's always been very nice to me and we've never discussed this topic. And I wonder if she was confronted by video evidence, if she'd alter things or if she'd just double down.

The bottom line to the OP is, the first step when finding a pitching coach is to make sure he/she isn't teaching H/E mechanics. If they are, run. If not, there's a good chance they'll get you on the right track.

 

[El Oso]

I'd be shocked if a random guy off the street could get regular lessons set up with Hon.

 

[Gambler Bob]

I'd be shocked if a random guy off the street could get regular lessons set up with Hon.

I would not be shocked. My daughter has pitched with Hon for 4 years. We were just random people off the street at that time, still are. See new faces in the facility all the time.

If you are new, you probably not going to get a Tues. Wed. or Thurs between 5-8pm, you might not get the same time every week or every other week, and it will probably not be the exact day you ask for but he will most likely have a time for you at some point. People always have cancellations and other stuff that pop up where he can get a new client in.

 

[El Oso]

I'd be shocked if a random guy off the street could get regular lessons set up with Hon.

you might not get the same time every week or every other week,

You just agreed with me so I'm confused