Last High School Game for a 2022; Need to Vent

[JayW]

It sounds like the best option for DD to get on the field would have been to work hard on 3B skills and to have DD tell the coach that she would like an opportunity to take reps at 3B. There is a lot of crossover between C and 3B. Coaches always appreciate a player who will enthusiastically play anywhere she is needed.

 

[CMMom1740]

It sounds like the best option for DD to get on the field would have been to work hard on 3B skills and to have DD tell the coach that she would like an opportunity to take reps at 3B. There is a lot of crossover between C and 3B. Coaches always appreciate a player who will enthusiastically play anywhere she is needed.

No, my DD is not a 3B. The girl who took over at C is. My DD is a lefty. So, options in the field are more limited. Her secondary is 1B.

 

[JayW]

lefty makes things more difficult in terms of playing multiple positions. also, a lot of coaches dont like lefty catchers, rational or not. a lot of coaches will also go with an underclassman over a senior of near equal abilities because they know they have the underclassman on their team for several more years.

 

[JayW]

What grade was the 3B?

 

[CMMom1740]

What grade was the 3B?

Freshman.

 

[whiporee]

I don't subscribe to that. That is an old school logic in todays world. As a coach your job is to make the lineup out as the player your job is to make sure you're in it. Today's freshman who play at a competitive level and travel the country playing ball is not going to play behind the upperclassman who waited their turn but didn't earn or do the work but waited. You play the best 9 and if they are leaders they understand that concept. I told mine when she was a Freshman the expectation is you'll be the #4 in the circle to start preseason (1 SR, 1 JR, 1 SO). Midway through the season she became the clear #2 but also pitched as a #1B with the SR.

It's not fair to the other players if the lineup is not the best lineup.

Is your daughter a senior now?

I think there's a difference with pitchers that doesn't apply with to a position player. Pitchers are much easier to evaluate good/better than other players. But when you're discussing good/better with other positions, it gets much more difficult. An error every three games? An extra hit every two games? Do those marginal differences compensate for losing earned knowledge, or experience, or rewarding loyalty? The "best 9" that is often quoted is very subjective standard. Your best pitcher? Sure, easy to see. But whether a 1B is better than another 1B? As long as they both catch the ball when it comes to them, hard to determine one being better than the other. If you're going over hitting -- one got an extra hit against an overmatched opponent or a tired pitcher. None of this is easily definable.

I'd like the people who are jumping in here to try to look at this from the perspective of parents whose kids are playing their last seasons of softball, maybe ever. Or the perspective of girls who, having given three years to a program, find themselves replaced before their final year of high school. Like I've said, high school isn't travel ball -- you don't have the option of going to a different situation if this one isn't working out. So a coach making the decision to not play a senior is more than just filling out the lineup card. It's moments in people's lives.

I'd also ask that you look at the physical and mental differences between 14-year-old girls and 18-year-old-girls. They are often dramatic. A senior girl likely would be more able to handle a pressure situation than a 14-year-old. At least as far as I'm concerned, unless there's a specific reason to do otherwise, I think the older girls ought to get the chance to try.

 

[flash277]

I am sorry, but I could not disagree with this more. Even in high school at the varsity level you play the best players.

I coach at a small school and have had a freshman start more years than not. These players are usually 4 year starters. There is currently a player in our program that will be a senior this coming season that has not started single varsity game in the last three years. She will not be cut or asked to leave or forced out. She will be a part of the team. I was also very honest with her at the end of last season that we wanted her to be apart of the team but I would not guarantee her any playing time. She told me, "that's all I want to be a part of the team because we will win."

I then told her that I will make one promise. She will start on senior night and it does not mater who we are playing or when. That is when I got the smile that all coaches enjoy. There are other seniors that I told (again, at the end of last season) that they would be competing for a starting position. I really feel they all knew it but I made sure.
I would never cut a player that has given our program three years but they are never given a starting spot just because they are seniors.

@IndyHScoach i agree with you that the best 9 should start, but do you have games in your schedule against weak teams where you would start players off the bench, or is it always top 9 for you?

 

[CoachJD]

If they are, then they are a bad human being. That's putting the coach's needs/interests above the people s/he is supposed to be serving -- the kids who play for them.

LOL what?

A coach is selfish for trying to develop players for the future? Come on.

Is your daughter a senior now?

I think there's a difference with pitchers that doesn't apply with to a position player. Pitchers are much easier to evaluate good/better than other players. But when you're discussing good/better with other positions, it gets much more difficult. An error every three games? An extra hit every two games? Do those marginal differences compensate for losing earned knowledge, or experience, or rewarding loyalty? The "best 9" that is often quoted is very subjective standard. Your best pitcher? Sure, easy to see. But whether a 1B is better than another 1B? As long as they both catch the ball when it comes to them, hard to determine one being better than the other. If you're going over hitting -- one got an extra hit against an overmatched opponent or a tired pitcher. None of this is easily definable.

I'd like the people who are jumping in here to try to look at this from the perspective of parents whose kids are playing their last seasons of softball, maybe ever. Or the perspective of girls who, having given three years to a program, find themselves replaced before their final year of high school. Like I've said, high school isn't travel ball -- you don't have the option of going to a different situation if this one isn't working out. So a coach making the decision to not play a senior is more than just filling out the lineup card. It's moments in people's lives.

I'd also ask that you look at the physical and mental differences between 14-year-old girls and 18-year-old-girls. They are often dramatic. A senior girl likely would be more able to handle a pressure situation than a 14-year-old. At least as far as I'm concerned, unless there's a specific reason to do otherwise, I think the older girls ought to get the chance to try.

Here's what I read in that first paragraph: I can't tell which players are better, so a coach obviously can't either.

As for the second: I'm just not interested in the "perspective of parents" when it comes to coaching my team. The girls? Absolutely. But I wonder why only the senior should be considered. A few years ago, I almost lost my team because I put a senior on varsity who, quite honestly, didn't deserve it (she had a very good tryout, it was the last varsity spot, and she didn't play much). A Freshman who was much better than her started the year on JV because two other seniors had middle infield locked down and I wanted a leader on JV. By the end of the season, that Freshman was the starting SS. That was always part of my plan, but I definitely heard complaints about that senior getting a spot over a better player. So, you know, maybe I shouldn't have worried so much about the perspective of that one senior as much as I did.

As for the third: I have not witnessed what you claim to be a fact. I have 7th graders on our middle school team who I would trust in pressure situations over seniors. I think age has very little to do with it. Experience? Sure. That could play a role. But I've had plenty of seniors who wilt under pressure and plenty of Freshmen who excel. As for the "specific reason," is "the younger player is better" not specific?

 

[IndyHScoach]

@IndyHScoach i agree with you that the best 9 should start, but do you have games in your schedule against weak teams where you would start players off the bench, or is it always top 9 for you?

Saying the best 9 play is true, but to answer your question. Yes, we do let other players start depending on opponents. Our #3 pitcher may start against a weaker opponent to get innings and also to rest #1 & #2. Players that are top JV players will come up and get a start in those games to gain experience for the purpose of preparing for the next season. We will rest our catcher from time to time also. I do not think a HS catcher can be behind the plate for all 28 games in a two month period.

So the senior that I promised to start on senior night MAY get a start during the season but that is not promised. For a majority of our games we will have our best lineup of 9 or 10 players. First week of the season we may use a couple different lineups to see who can produce under game time pressure. At that point it is the eye test on who preforms not what grade they have next to their name on the roster.

 

[Clint19]

Is your daughter a senior now?

I think there's a difference with pitchers that doesn't apply with to a position player. Pitchers are much easier to evaluate good/better than other players. But when you're discussing good/better with other positions, it gets much more difficult. An error every three games? An extra hit every two games? Do those marginal differences compensate for losing earned knowledge, or experience, or rewarding loyalty? The "best 9" that is often quoted is very subjective standard. Your best pitcher? Sure, easy to see. But whether a 1B is better than another 1B? As long as they both catch the ball when it comes to them, hard to determine one being better than the other. If you're going over hitting -- one got an extra hit against an overmatched opponent or a tired pitcher. None of this is easily definable.

I'd like the people who are jumping in here to try to look at this from the perspective of parents whose kids are playing their last seasons of softball, maybe ever. Or the perspective of girls who, having given three years to a program, find themselves replaced before their final year of high school. Like I've said, high school isn't travel ball -- you don't have the option of going to a different situation if this one isn't working out. So a coach making the decision to not play a senior is more than just filling out the lineup card. It's moments in people's lives.

I'd also ask that you look at the physical and mental differences between 14-year-old girls and 18-year-old-girls. They are often dramatic. A senior girl likely would be more able to handle a pressure situation than a 14-year-old. At least as far as I'm concerned, unless there's a specific reason to do otherwise, I think the older girls ought to get the chance to try.

The coaches see the players everyday. If they cant tell who is better a couple weeks into practice, they shouldn't be coaching. Pitchers are no different to evaluate than anyone else. Ive seen girls that throw harder and have more movement and then get hit all over the ballpark when an average looking pitcher induces soft contact and is more effective on a regular basis.

All things equal, yes, I agree that the senior "deserves" to play. They've dedicated themselves to the program, often for more than 4 years.

The physical and mental differences are what they are and vary from player to player. Simply being older or younger is not a factor.