How important is the leap?

[halskinner]

A couple of points:

1) since the rules specifically state that the pivot foot must be on the pitching plate during the pitching motion but can drag forward along the ground, it is implied that the pivot foot should not be leaving the ground until the pitch is released. The reason the supplemental rules address "leaping" is they wanted to distinquish between two different types of illegal pictches: a) crow hopping (where the pivot foot pushes off the ground twice) and leaping (where both feet are off the ground).

2) even if you are correct that "the pivot foot can leave the ground as long as the stride foot is planted"; why would you encourage this technique? Its my understanding that the pivot foot is important for three reasons a) initial push off from the plate b) acts as a "rudder" for balance as it drags along the ground; and c) helps drive the hips closed right at release. If the pivot is off the ground when the stride foot is planted, it cannot help you achieve "b" and "c".

c) helps drive the hips closed right at release. If the pivot is off the ground when the stride foot is planted, it cannot help you achieve "b" and "c".[/QUOTE]

THAT IS AN INCORRRECT ANSWER. The pivot foot / leg DOES NOT contribute to hip closure. It does, in fact, impede hip closure. Hip closure is accomplished by the core muscles, the muscles of the upper body and shoulders. This is one of the big reasons you only want just enough pressure on the pivot foot toe dragging to keep it in contact with the ground, so the pivot leg / foot provides the least amount of resistance to any hip closure.

To imply that the pivot leg is what causes hip closure is to imply that you must have a 2nd push off from that leg near release. THAT is not true and is a misconception.

 

[tojo]

A couple of points:

1) since the rules specifically state that the pivot foot must be on the pitching plate during the pitching motion but can drag forward along the ground, it is implied that the pivot foot should not be leaving the ground until the pitch is released. The reason the supplemental rules address "leaping" is they wanted to distinquish between two different types of illegal pictches: a) crow hopping (where the pivot foot pushes off the ground twice) and leaping (where both feet are off the ground).

2) even if you are correct that "the pivot foot can leave the ground as long as the stride foot is planted"; why would you encourage this technique? Its my understanding that the pivot foot is important for three reasons a) initial push off from the plate b) acts as a "rudder" for balance as it drags along the ground; and c) helps drive the hips closed right at release. If the pivot is off the ground when the stride foot is planted, it cannot help you achieve "b" and "c".

How is it implied? If the pivot or push foot is required to be in contact with the ground until release, wouldn't there be a 3rd type of illegal pitch if the pivot foot lost contact with the ground before release? A lot of figure 4 and drop ball pitchers would be in trouble if this were the case.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

c) helps drive the hips closed right at release. If the pivot is off the ground when the stride foot is planted, it cannot help you achieve "b" and "c".

THAT IS AN INCORRRECT ANSWER. The pivot foot / leg DOES NOT contribute to hip closure. It does, in fact, impede hip closure. Hip closure is accomplished by the core muscles, the muscles of the upper body and shoulders. This is one of the big reasons you only want just enough pressure on the pivot foot toe dragging to keep it in contact with the ground, so the pivot leg / foot provides the least amount of resistance to any hip closure.

To imply that the pivot leg is what causes hip closure is to imply that you must have a 2nd push off from that leg near release. THAT is not true and is a misconception.[/QUOTE]

Hal - it may in fact be a second push off, albeit one that is almost impossibe to get an IP call on, but I have to believe that there is some torgue (power) that is generated when the pivot foot drags along the ground and "kicks out" simultaneously at release. The pitcher is using the resistance of the ground to help drive the body into and around the firm, planted stride foot. It has to generate power. It is similar to a golfer httting his driver. On the down swing, the left side remains firm, his right leg is driving his upper and hips closed creating tremendous torgue as he hits the ball.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

How is it implied? If the pivot or push foot is required to be in contact with the ground until release, wouldn't there be a 3rd type of illegal pitch if the pivot foot lost contact with the ground before release? A lot of figure 4 and drop ball pitchers would be in trouble if this were the case.

It is implied because there is a specific rule that states the pivot foot cannot lose contact with the ground. The rule makers could have easily said "cannot leave the ground UNTIL the stride foot plants" but it does not say that.

Is the "figure 4" happening prior to release of the ball or after?

I have viewed Hillhouse's pitching DVD, when he throws a peel drop (which is the same as his fastball) his release is at 7 'o'clock vs. 6 o'clock. He does not manipulate his pivot foot to achieve the drop ball. Not sure it is necessary from what I have read and seen?

 

[Julie-flawlessfastpitch]

General Tips About Strong Leg Work

When you use the term "leap," that is a term that I generally associate with the back foot leaving the ground when she comes off of the mound and then replanting (different from a crow hop, but equally illegal). If your daughter tends to do this, then it is very important that she learns to keep that back foot in contact with the ground before she develops a longer stride. She can learn to do this if you place a towel just in front of her drag foot by the mound and ask her to drag it all the way forward without losing contact with the ground. Even if she is not illegal, this is a good drill to help develop a symbiotic relationship between the front and back leg. I find that the problem with many young pitchers is that they have a huge stride, but they either dip their legs or never even drag the back leg. This is certainly worse than taking a short stride but getting a lot of power out of BOTH legs. For ideal use of explosive legs, keep in mind the following:

1. As the landing leg explodes forward, the drag leg should be coming off the rubber while STILL MAINTAINING CONTACT WITH THE GROUND. The drag leg should continue moving forward in a smooth, directed movement that the knee is leading (meaning that the knee should come before the foot and the foot shouldn't come out like a bowling finish).
2. Upon landing, the landing leg should be a little bent, but should straighten to create a firm, strong, left side (if she is a righty) and accommodate the arm whip. The legs shouldn't look like they are dipping or squatting.
3. The drag leg should "support" the whip of the arm ALL the way through the finish.
4. Her upper body should appear steady and not crunch when she takes a longer stride.


If your daughter can manage these movements well, then you can do some drills to increase her stride. Try marking her stride with a cone and then trying to get her to beat that stride. However, as soon as you see the integrity of the four elements mentioned above compromised, decrease the stride a little and then try again later. Most girls can stride a little more than their height, but if the foundation is not good, it will not help her in the long run. Good luck!
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[Madsdad]

Almost hate having replied at all. A lot of this is in the terminology and interpretation. Leaping by definition is completely going over something. Both feet have to leave the ground or you are stepping over not leaping over. If there is any implication, I think that is where it lyes. I have trouble with the drag foot being a rudder because by definition a rudder is used to steer. I think it may be a guide of sorts for the pitcher to know where she is in relation to the ground but for the most part it is along for the ride. The drag foot pulled by the upper leg muscles driving forward into the plant leg once it has pushed off. How many time have you told your dd to turn herself with her drag foot. If the stride foot is planted at the correct angle, won't the hips follow? The core muscle will then close the hips. If a figure 4 is done correctly, you don't need the kick leg going back and forth for balance. The leg will move if you are off balance. Isn't your head the center of balance?
I'm not highly educated and I'm not a pitching expert, but I've been to enough union negotiations to know that there is a lot in interpretation and terminology.

 

[stephanie]

I have an awesome image of her just after release: it REALLY looks as if she has these elements ok...Her drag leg stays along the ground...
however, being computer iliiterate, I can't manage to attach it...dagnabit!

Ken,
I didn't mean to open a can of worms here..I see photo's of young pictures like my DD, and their left legs are at near right angles to the ground! I know my DD doesn't even TRY to do that, so I was just wondering if that was something she should be working towards, or what? Does that make the leap (or whatever we want to call it) more explosive?
sorry.....

 

[halskinner]

THAT IS AN INCORRRECT ANSWER. The pivot foot / leg DOES NOT contribute to hip closure. It does, in fact, impede hip closure. Hip closure is accomplished by the core muscles, the muscles of the upper body and shoulders. This is one of the big reasons you only want just enough pressure on the pivot foot toe dragging to keep it in contact with the ground, so the pivot leg / foot provides the least amount of resistance to any hip closure.

To imply that the pivot leg is what causes hip closure is to imply that you must have a 2nd push off from that leg near release. THAT is not true and is a misconception.

"Hal - it may in fact be a second push off, albeit one that is almost impossibe to get an IP call on, but I have to believe that there is some torgue (power) that is generated when the pivot foot drags along the ground and "kicks out" simultaneously at release. The pitcher is using the resistance of the ground to help drive the body into and around the firm, planted stride foot. It has to generate power. It is similar to a golfer httting his driver. On the down swing, the left side remains firm, his right leg is driving his upper and hips closed creating tremendous torgue as he hits the ball.[/QUOTE]

"kicks out" simultaneously at release." Kicks OUT??? What are you talking about here?? At the moment of ball release, the pivot knee should still be slightly bent with no extra push off at all. The pivot toe should 'Drag', straight towards the stride leg. It should still be behind the stride foot, well behind, at ball release.

After the ball is released, if THEN it kicks out, up , backwards or she kicks herself in the tail, who cares, that is the follow through and has nothing to do with the pitch.

Did an instructor teach you these things, Kicking out and do it at the same time as the release?? You would have to be standing pretty much straight up at ball release to even come close to doing what you are saying. You would be out of balance, you would lose whatever resistance you might have tried to attain, you would be walking through the pitch and your mechanics would be lousy. Who told you to pitch like THAT?

Did someone on this board tell you that??



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