How do you handle an umpire who disregards certain rules?

[radness]

It isn't about what the umpire sees, it's about making the correct call (applying the rule correctly) based on what he sees. If you can't understand that, then just say so and move on.

( i do understand what you are saying...it is still dependant on interpretation)
That said,
Lol, find it funny how you continue to want to correct what somebody else sees and their interpretations.
To a person (me) who is ok knowing umpires/people will be different. And thats ok.

Perhaps that makes its own point!

 

[flash277]

No, I am asking the umpire to be open to the possibility that they don't have a perfect knowledge of the rule book and we willing to be proven wrong. Of course it is up to the umpire to see the situation and make the call according to the rule and at the accepted interpretation of that rule. But to do that, the umpire has to first get the rule right. When the umpire and the coach see a situation differently, the umpire wins that argument. When the umpire gets the rule wrong while making the call for that situation, and the coach shows the umpire the rule in the book, the umpire should accept that he/she is wrong and make any necessary change to the call. Why is that so hard to understand?

USSSA Rule 11 Sec 2-z says that a coach cannot bring a rulebook into the field to dispute a call with the umpire.

 

[kennykozman!!]

I am explaining the process. If you can't understand or accept that, I don't really care. I didn't say anything about challenging an umpire's authority. I am talking about an umpire being open to correcting a call when a rule was misapplied.

"I am explaining the process. If you can't understand understand that, I don't really care"

Now what if I said that to you as the home plate umpire?

This is the real process: explain the issue, file a protest, move on. Ever since they made the coaches pay for protests the number is almost nonexistent.
They don't think its worth the $50 or $100 but they will bring unnecessary attention to themselves and their team on the field that will hurt them in the future too.

Bringing out the rule book is SHOWING UP THE UMPIRE. Ask any umpire.

I know you don't want to hear this but I will tell you anyway. There is an UNWRITTEN code for umpires especially in game management situations. Part of the code is when a manager brings out a rulebook all communication ends. Like or it not that is the way it is. Wow I really love softball.

Umpires cant agree on plate shoes and using an indicator in the field let alone interference or obstruction application. Its just part of the game.

We all could check ourselves and see if our actions are helping or hurting the game. OK, I am getting off the soapbox.

 

[PDM]

USSSA Rule 11 Sec 2-z says that a coach cannot bring a rulebook into the field to dispute a call with the umpire.

I don't think that would apply to a coach and umpire discussing a rule prior to a game, which is where this discussion started, but it can't be done while the game is in progress (in a USSSA sanctioned game). Thanks. I appreciate the info.

 

[flash277]

I don't think that would apply to a coach and umpire discussing a rule prior to a game, which is where this discussion started, but it can't be done while the game is in progress (in a USSSA sanctioned game). Thanks. I appreciate the info.

oh you are quite welcome, but the situation you stated that the coach bring out a rulebook after a call in a game, well, that's against the rules stated in the rulebook the coach is coming out with.

 

[PDM]

"I am explaining the process. If you can't understand understand that, I don't really care"

Now what if I said that to you as the home plate umpire?

This is the real process: explain the issue, file a protest, move on. Ever since they made the coaches pay for protests the number is almost nonexistent.
They don't think its worth the $50 or $100 but they will bring unnecessary attention to themselves and their team on the field that will hurt them in the future too.

Bringing out the rule book is SHOWING UP THE UMPIRE. Ask any umpire.

I know you don't want to hear this but I will tell you anyway. There is an UNWRITTEN code for umpires especially in game management situations. Part of the code is when a manager brings out a rulebook all communication ends. Like or it not that is the way it is. Wow I really love softball.

Umpires cant agree on plate shoes and using an indicator in the field let alone interference or obstruction application. Its just part of the game.

We all could check ourselves and see if our actions are helping or hurting the game. OK, I am getting off the soapbox.

We are having an Internet discussion here. It's not quite the same thing as a coach saying it to an umpire, and I think you might have misunderstood what I meant there, but it isn't important. To answer your question, if I am the umpire I say "Whether you care makes no difference one way or the other. The umpire gets the last word. That's just the way it is." As for bringing out the rule being "showing up the umpire" I have officiated several sports and I while it has never happened to me, I would be fine with it. My job is to get the call right. It doesn't matter to me that I had to read the rule in the coach's rule book to accomplish that. But I certainly don't speak for all sports officials. Umpires who consider that "being shown up" probably don't know the rules and don't want to be exposed. If the umpire knows the rule, then he should be saying "Be my guest. I would be happy to have you read exactly what I just told you." Who looks foolish then? The coach. I do not understand why it is so difficult for people to put aside their egos for the good of the players on the field. An umpire's judgement is not what we are talking about here. It's the rule that is being applied. That's not the same thing. Judgement should never be questioned. Everyone has their own opinion so it's pointless to argue judgement. As you said, "we could all check ourselves and see if our actions are helping or hurting the game." Words to live by!

 

[PDM]

oh you are quite welcome, but the situation you stated that the coach bring out a rulebook after a call in a game, well, that's against the rules stated in the rulebook the coach is coming out with.

Understood. Thanks!

 

[kennykozman!!]

Umpires who consider that "being shown up" probably don't know the rules and don't want to be exposed. If the umpire knows the rule, then he should be saying "Be my guest. I would be happy to have you read exactly what I just told you." Who looks foolish then? The coach. I do not understand why it is so difficult for people to put aside their egos for the good of the players on the field. An umpire's judgement is not what we are talking about here. It's the rule that is being applied. That's not the same thing. Judgement should never be questioned.

I will just say we disagree on this. The matter is MANY umpires will feel SHOWN UP as soon as you bring out the rulebook regardless of how any coach feels. Right or wrong there it is. Reporting "the coach brought out the rulebook" on the ejection report and the case is closed by UIC.

Utilize the protest, it is very effective and if you are correct it will be a point of emphasis going forward for umpires. I have never seen a rules analysis/interpretation on the field end well.

 

[radness]

Was an interesting experience to have an umpire over my shoulder for 50% of my playing time career (during defense).

Something that only a limited amount of people/athletes get to experience having an 'official' so close physically and to the closest visual field as eachother.

An official who was talking to me during the game (and possibly the other catcher to)...
Sure they would have little bits of conversation sometimes with coaches, other players. Some umpires talk with fans, not all.
Remember the umpire's who would chatter a little game commentary during the game... was something became familiar with.
While others were very rigid. No talk at all.

Along with that became familiar with all the different personalities/styles that umpire.

Certainly others have noticed the different personality types/styles also. What would be your descriptions?
1. ______
2. _________
3. ____________

 

[PDM]

I will just say we disagree on this. The matter is MANY umpires will feel SHOWN UP as soon as you bring out the rulebook regardless of how any coach feels. Right or wrong there it is. Reporting "the coach brought out the rulebook" on the ejection report and the case is closed by UIC.

Utilize the protest, it is very effective and if you are correct it will be a point of emphasis going forward for umpires. I have never seen a rules analysis/interpretation on the field end well.

Absolutely! I know a lot of officials in softball and other sports who would feel shown up by a coach brining out a rule book. I am just saying that I wouldn't and they shouldn't. Those guys are the problem, not the coach, if their call doesn't match what's in the rule book. I've had quite a few occurrences of coaches questioning rules and me quoting from the book, but no one has actually brought out the book with them. I am not perfect, but I do know the rules and have no fear of one being read to me. If I have it wrong, I'll fix it (if possible). A lot of officials don't see it that way.