Does Pool Play Matter?

[Rocketech1]

On another thread someone mentioned that pool play doesn't really matter and teams should pitch their #3 and #4 pitchers and save their #1 and #2 for bracket (elimination) play.

In my opinion, every game is important because where you are seeded can and will make a big difference in how far in the tournament you will go.

Do you think pool play matters?

 

[FP26]

On another thread someone mentioned that pool play doesn't really matter and teams should pitch their #3 and #4 pitchers and save their #1 and #2 for bracket (elimination) play.

In my opinion, every game is important because where you are seeded can and will make a big difference in how far in the tournament you will go.

Do you think pool play matters?

There are so many variables that I don't think it is possible to create a blanket response. Much of it will vary based on the quality of the competition in the tournament. If there is a wide range of talent, doing well in pool play should get you a 'lesser' opponent to start bracket play. But if you are going to go far, you will still need someone to knock off the other good teams. If you can't beat them yourself, you will need to hope someone else does before you face them.

It is not uncommon in our area to face a team that has a different roster on Sunday than Saturday. This team may have been average or less than average on Saturday, and then all of a sudden they have 3 or 4 different players on Sunday including two stud pitchers. So you go undefeated in pool play only to face this team during your first bracket game.

IMO, play every game like it matters, but don't wear your players out either. No matter what the situation is, you will need quality pitching to get far in bracket play. If you wear them out in pool play, you will be at a disadvantage.

 

[Rmc1981]

Not sure if you were referring to one of my posts or not, but I did make a comment referencing this, so here's a few of my thoughts/experience.

First off, most of the tournaments in our area (we play anywhere from Houston to Beaumont to Lake Charles) are USFA tournaments. For the most part, the tournaments are either seeded based off of season point totals or a drawing before pool play begins. That means that your results in pool play have no bearing on who you play in bracket. Because of those, many of your better teams will only throw there ace an inning or two in pool to save them for bracket. Additionally, many will flip the batting order and bat the entire lineup to try and get some extra ABs for those girls who may not get to in a bracket game.

I realize that many tournaments are not set up this way, and have played in many of them. Other tournament formats would require a different strategy.

I don't see many teams that throw their #3 or #4 in bracket play unless they are either desperate or the game is already in hand one way or the other. So if my daughter is one of those two and she is serious about becoming a great pitcher, why would I put her in a situation where she won't get bracket innings? So what that the team is better and they play more games on a weekend? If she didn't pitch the 1st or 2nd bracket game, she's unlikely to pitch the championship game...

As for pool play, I think every girl that goes in the game should give 100%. As a coach, I'm not always concerned with winning my pool games. I want to work on some specific goal as a team, something to improve on, maybe that we've been working on or talking about in practice. I want to build confidence that it will work for us when we go to bracket.

So yes, I think Pool is very important, only for different reasons.

 

[Rocketech1]

Rmc1981 thanks for the clarification. Sounds like the tournament rules are nothing like the ones DD has played in. For example, when she played all-stars in ASA and were trying to qualify for State and Nationals, the pool play games were strictly blind draw and any loss in pool play got you booted to the losers bracket which makes it very difficult to get to the semi's or championship games from that position.

Now in travel ball, DD's team plays mostly in USSSA and PGF qualifiers where you are in a pool of 4 teams (ex. 24 teams, 6 pools, 4 teams each pool), you play round robin, and after these 3 games, teams are seeded #1 - 4 in their pool which dictates bracket play (single elimination) on Sunday.

Where all players get the most playing time (pitchers included) is 4 game friendlies where we bat everyone and freely rotate all the positions.

 

[indianafp]

Depends on what you want out of it. And pool play is different everywhere I go. I play NSA, and they have brackets within the brackets. So one seed in Group A plays 3 seed in Group D. BUT 3 seed in Group D could have easily been 1 Seed in All other groups. So when I play those, I basically work on those, because it's a major crap shoot when going to the brackets. There are other times, I go all out in pool play so it gives us the rest of the day off and come back in the morning. Again, depends on the layout. But most of the time, in pool play, I work on things like Rmc stated above.

 

[SoAZDad]

Down here, 1st pool seeds generally have an advantage in bracket play because (1) their first bracket game is usually against a #4 or #5 seed, and/or (2) their first bracket game is usually against the winner of one or two earlier games that morning and are comparably fresher going through elimination play, and (3) they don't have to wake up and get to the fields as early as the lower seeds.

So, #1 seeds usually get more rest, play fewer games, and don't see the stiffest competition until the semifinals. Usually.

 

[riseball]

It is not an either or question. Why are you at the there? If it is an ASA qualifier I am riding my best players. If it is a NSA tournament that we are doing as a tune-up, other than 8:00AM start on Sunday I do not care where we seat. We are there to work on some things and that is part of the game plan. We then play as competitive as possible given those constraints. Sometimes we will swing aluminum and work on ball placement.

 

[sftblldad7]

The last time I checked, if the tournament is rain out the top seed wins the tournament. Coming from the northeast where it does rain you want the one seed. Also we have played in tournaments where there was a drop dead time limit. In this case the top seed deiced if they want to be home or away. In drop dead you want to be the visitors so you can control the clock so in this case you want to be the one seed. And the most important reason is that the one seed will usually play one less game and you get to sleep in

 

[riseball]

The last time I checked, if the tournament is rain out the top seed wins the tournament. Coming from the northeast where it does rain you want the one seed. Also we have played in tournaments where there was a drop dead time limit. In this case the top seed deiced if they want to be home or away. In drop dead you want to be the visitors so you can control the clock so in this case you want to be the one seed. And the most important reason is that the one seed will usually play one less game and you get to sleep in

Does that really matter? I for one would rather get the call early in the morning that it was rained out and sleep in knowing we played well the day before. Let someone else drive to the fields in the rain to pickup the T-shirts and trinkets.

 

[JAD]

On another thread someone mentioned that pool play doesn't really matter and teams should pitch their #3 and #4 pitchers and save their #1 and #2 for bracket (elimination) play.

In my opinion, every game is important because where you are seeded can and will make a big difference in how far in the tournament you will go.

Do you think pool play matters?

It depends on the format of the tournament. Some tournaments use pool play to seed the tournament while other tournaments post the brackets before pool play even starts. In the later scenario the pool games essentially do not count, and teams are better off playing them to get better (and keep some parents happy with playing time for the DD) vs. playing to win.