Cheating or Aggressive Base Running?

[daywalkerdad]

I do not think umps have to decide
NFHS rule book appendix f section f

f. The coach shall master the contest rules and shall teach them to his or her team members. The coach shall not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules.

 

[CoachJD]

act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.
Just thought I would post the definition of cheating.

Every holding penalty (all penalties, in fact) in football and hockey is cheating according to that definition. You could probably argue that every foul in basketball is also cheating.

It's also cheating to frame a pitch that is out of the strike zone (that is "dishonest," right?).

I think that's a bad definition and doesn't actually describe what most people think of as cheating.

 

[CoachJD]

WWJD....not this ^^^^^

That's not an argument that's going to be particularly effective with me. It also doesn't address anything I brought up in the post.

 

[daywalkerdad]

Every holding penalty (all penalties, in fact) in football and hockey is cheating according to that definition. You could probably argue that every foul in basketball is also cheating.

It's also cheating to frame a pitch that is out of the strike zone (that is "dishonest," right?).

I think that's a bad definition and doesn't actually describe what most people think of as cheating.

Yes holding is cheating that is why it is punished with a penalty.
It took me 3 pages on the last thread to explain the difference.
No rule against framing a pitch. This is not dishonest since you would tell everyone you are doing it.
Definition straight from dictionary. Have to take that one up with Mr. Webster.

 

[angispeds]

We don’t teach our kids to leave early but we teach them not to be late which sometimes results in being close.


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[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Appeals exist. All who are calling on umps to intervene without an appeal are pouring grease on a slippery slope.

How early does a runner have to leave a base before a caught fly ball for it to be considered worthy of an umpire intervention? Only on a tying or winning run?

How about batting out of order when the defense misses it? Do we intervene without appeal if we think the coach did it to avoid a weak hitter?

You want us to use our judgement on how much a runner misses a base by to infer intent….this is going to get ugly.

I hate this play, but the defense has to appeal.

 

[daywalkerdad]

My question in this case. Why is the runner not out when the go to the dugout? Does touching home make it an appeal play?

 

[MoJo]

That's not an argument that's going to be particularly effective with me. It also doesn't address anything I brought up in the post.

Jesus is a fictional character to me. Yet he embodies the highest moral and ethical values. Strong ethical persons are trustworthy, kind, forgive easily and don't compromise those values.

 

[MoJo]

Appeals exist. All who are calling on umps to intervene without an appeal are pouring grease on a slippery slope.

How early does a runner have to leave a base before a caught fly ball for it to be considered worthy of an umpire intervention? Only on a tying or winning run?

How about batting out of order when the defense misses it? Do we intervene without appeal if we think the coach did it to avoid a weak hitter?

You want us to use our judgement on how much a runner misses a base by to infer intent….this is going to get ugly.

I hate this play, but the defense has to appeal.

Missing a base by a stride happens in softball. There is a rule to address that.

Running from 2nd to home (missing 3rd by 20 feet) is blatant cheating. No regard for fellow athletes, any standards of decency, or basic sportsmanship.

Check the Code of Ethics.

If you can't play with some sportsmanship then get out of sports.

Easy.

 

[Nimrod]

I do not think umps have to decide
NFHS rule book appendix f section f

f. The coach shall master the contest rules and shall teach them to his or her team members. The coach shall not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules.

This is a code of ethics for coaches. So while it's good to point it out, it's not designed to embolden umpires to make subjective judgments on sportsmanship and to dole out punishments, IMO. If NFHS wanted umpires to do that, it would be in the actual softball rules, and it would be more specific about what constitutes bad sportsmanship and what consequences should be given in the heat of battle when umpires conclude that there's been a violation.

Understand that those believing what I just said aren't any less disgusted by what happened. But I still agree with Myrriad's point of view. Intervening in the name of sportsmanship, while it might seem just at the time, is not a precedent an umpire should take here because there's not enough guidance in the rule book on when and how to enforce and it sets up umpires to be constantly second-guessed and badgered to punish the other team for bad sportsmanship. Don't think the game needs that unless rules define violations and punishments objectively and specifically.