Why is it important to know how fast your DD pitches?

[Mrek]

Certainly 70's isn't the norm, but it's not quite as rare as you think. Plenty of current and former, are in the mix. Right up into the mid 70's. The average, certainly not. Major heat FB, with a wicked off speed pitch, that's why these girl have sub 1.0 era's.




I would stand by average. The ones throwing 75 in a private tryout, are getting offers pretty much on the spot. The ones who have trouble flirting with the mid 50's, don't get enough playing time, and might be lucky to play juco ball. Then there's everone else. I was only referring to the ones actively in the recruiting process, looking to play college ball. Not the high end of the scale, and not the low end of the scale. We can call it whatever you like.

I would think if a female HS recruit was throwing 75 MPH on a calibrated radar gun either in a camp or private tryout then, in this information age, there would be some record of it on the Internet. Even if the pitcher could throw that hard without command, her father or some supporter would still put in on the Web. Even if the pitcher had a 30MPH gale behind her, I would think someone would put in on the Web just as a goof. I've never heard of any girl being recruited throwing 75MPH. Yes, women at the top levels in college or the NPF can push it to 72-73 and I agree with Screwball that 5, maybe 10, recruits tops in the nation can get it to 70, but 75? non wind aided? Come on.

 

[absdad]

I would think if a female HS recruit was throwing 75 MPH on a calibrated radar gun either in a camp or private tryout then, in this information age, there would be some record of it on the Internet. Even if the pitcher could throw that hard without command, her father or some supporter would still put in on the Web. Even if the pitcher had a 30MPH gale behind her, I would think someone would put in on the Web just as a goof. I've never heard of any girl being recruited throwing 75MPH. Yes, women at the top levels in college or the NPF can push it to 72-73 and I agree with Screwball that 5, maybe 10, recruits tops in the nation can get it to 70, but 75? non wind aided? Come on.

Chelsea Thomas. Consistently no. Never went to any skills or showcase tournaments. Her dad sent a few videos to some D1's around the midwest. That's sort of my point, the Fowler's and the Thomas' of the softball world, they don't make huge recruiting buzz, as most of them are off the market before word gets around.
A girl with 6 wicked pitches, including a 70mph FB isn't going to still be looking her Sr year.... unless she's got eligibility problems. And even then, some enterprising coach would find a way.

Sorry guys... 74, my bad.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=hays_graham&id=4212411

 

[Lozza]

But even then she's shown to be rare by the coach's reaction. If girls were throwing that speed every year, I can't see a coach thinking his radar gun was broken when he clocked her. That type of speed is incredibly rare.

 

[Mrek]

Chelsea Thomas. Consistently no. Never went to any skills or showcase tournaments. Her dad sent a few videos to some D1's around the midwest. That's sort of my point, the Fowler's and the Thomas' of the softball world, they don't make huge recruiting buzz, as most of them are off the market before word gets around.
A girl with 6 wicked pitches, including a 70mph FB isn't going to still be looking her Sr year.... unless she's got eligibility problems. And even then, some enterprising coach would find a way.

Sorry guys... 74, my bad.

Women's College World Series: Chelsea Thomas produces for Missouri Tigers with power arm, technique - ESPN

Well, as I re-read you posts again, it's clear that you think there is more than just one girl being recruited in private workouts throwing 70+ up to the mid 70s. Also, that the girls in recruitment camps throwing 60-63 are average and, since they are average, they are going to have trouble securing a spot in D1 or getting pitching time if they do since the slots have gone to 75MPHers.

Now to get rid of the exaggeration...

Recently, there appears to be one girl out there who was recruited in a private workout that posted 74 on a single gun, outdoors. Was the 74 actually 74 when compared to other pitchers speed? I don't know. One thing I will acknowledge is that she may have been the fastest female recruit in the country (and likely the world, God bless her) at that time, instead of implying that level of performance is not as uncommon as one might think. BTW, I don’t doubt there are more girls that throw 70 being recruited in this fashion but I think the number in the country is much closer to single digits than there is being “plenty” of pitchers.

The girls looking to be recruited that throw 60-63 are not the fastest but they are also not average. For many of them, it has taken an enormous amount of work to get where they are in terms of velocity. Those speeds may be average for NCAA D1 however most of those D1 girls are 3-4 years older than recruits with 3-4 years more of high level training and playing experience.

This thread was about why pitchers should or should not be put on radar guns. Simply, it is a reasonably unbiased measure of performance that can and has correlated to success in softball. The end all measurement is winning. But it’s much more difficult and time consuming to put 100 pitchers against live hitting in a game situation than to get some metrics that take a fraction of a second to acquire.

 

[jacketsfan]

The answer to why know is simple: Why do you your DD's batting average, POP time, home to 1st time, slugging percentage, etc? Some people know it to brag, some people know it to gauge improvement, some people know it to beat their kids with it.

I will say this - if your DD wants to pitch in college, you better start knowing it when she's a sophomore. The first question a college coach asks is "how fast is your best pitch?" They all have different standards, based upon the norm for their conference.

Every online recruiting questionnaire that you fill out for colleges has a place to list your pitches, and their speeds. You are fooling yourself if you think those spots on the form are optional, and if they don't matter.

 

[jacketsfan]

One last thing I'll add to this discussion, because I'll be pounded for saying it, just like last time I said it on this forum.

In spite of the doubters and nay-sayers, there are plenty of kids here in FL throwing 60+, and some that hit 70 with regularity. Not many, but some. Out there in the heartland, you might not think so, but here where we are, it is a fact.

In our County alone, last season one starting pitcher that threw 70 (FB), high 60's (rise). Most of the teams had #1's (juniors) in low to mid-60's. A couple of freshman were low-60's. A few teams were high-50's.

The success of most of these HS teams has more to do with the team around them than the pitcher herself. Some of these kids will win games by themselves, but by the time the playoffs get here, a 1-on-9 game goes very badly. Even with the kids throwing that hard, balls get put in play, and you have to make plays. A 60 mph pitcher alone is not going to win it, at least not around here. It's just not that uncommon.

When I last posted this, someone called BS by pointing to the NFCA camp statistics. None of the kids mentioned above attended NFCA camps to be clocked. They didn't need to, as some of them were committed after their Freshman year, more by Soph, and all by Junior. The NFCA camp results represent pitchers who are not yet committed, trying to get noticed. There will be the occasional kid who is from some place with little exposure who will blaze it. However, it is average, or typical of what we see in travel ball. Top pitchers are not there, because they don't need to be.

If your DD is looking at being a pitcher in college, you'd be well served to remember that schools recruit pitchers nationally. Some other position players they may find locally. So, your DD is not competing necessarily with the best pitchers in your area, or maybe even your state. They are competing for limited spots on a national basis, which is why there are so many ex-pitchers on college teams.

 

[Mrek]

One last thing I'll add to this discussion, because I'll be pounded for saying it, just like last time I said it on this forum.

In spite of the doubters and nay-sayers, there are plenty of kids here in FL throwing 60+, and some that hit 70 with regularity. Not many, but some. Out there in the heartland, you might not think so, but here where we are, it is a fact.

In our County alone, last season one starting pitcher that threw 70 (FB), high 60's (rise). Most of the teams had #1's (juniors) in low to mid-60's. A couple of freshman were low-60's. A few teams were high-50's.

The success of most of these HS teams has more to do with the team around them than the pitcher herself. Some of these kids will win games by themselves, but by the time the playoffs get here, a 1-on-9 game goes very badly. Even with the kids throwing that hard, balls get put in play, and you have to make plays. A 60 mph pitcher alone is not going to win it, at least not around here. It's just not that uncommon.

When I last posted this, someone called BS by pointing to the NFCA camp statistics. None of the kids mentioned above attended NFCA camps to be clocked. They didn't need to, as some of them were committed after their Freshman year, more by Soph, and all by Junior. The NFCA camp results represent pitchers who are not yet committed, trying to get noticed. There will be the occasional kid who is from some place with little exposure who will blaze it. However, it is average, or typical of what we see in travel ball. Top pitchers are not there, because they don't need to be.

If your DD is looking at being a pitcher in college, you'd be well served to remember that schools recruit pitchers nationally. Some other position players they may find locally. So, your DD is not competing necessarily with the best pitchers in your area, or maybe even your state. They are competing for limited spots on a national basis, which is why there are so many ex-pitchers on college teams.

I don't doubt that in FL and So Cal you will have a concentration of elite pitchers as you can play 12 months out of year. The point that this thread got into was if recruits in the very high 50's to low 60's were "average" and what is the rarity of girls throwing in the mid 70's.

Do you think recruits (which in this era should be mostly Sophs and Juniors) in the 60-63 are average? How about for D2 and D3 programs? (many of which recruit locally in a large part of the country)

How many recruits in FL specifically (0-5, 5-10, more?) do you know of that have been clocked at 70+? What percentage of the FL pitching population would you say that is?

And finally, how many have been clocked at 74-75? (I would say you would have heard of that in your state)

Even in D1, there are opportunities. All of those 70+MPHers from FL and CA may not have any desire to play in the Northeast Conference where games are routinely played in the 40's and 50's and the number of "free rides" is severely limited. Otherwise, when I look at the D1 rosters here in the NE, I would expect to see all pitchers from FL and CA, but that's not the case.

 

[absdad]

Well, as I re-read you posts again, it's clear that you think there is more than just one girl being recruited in private workouts throwing 70+ up to the mid 70s. Also, that the girls in recruitment camps throwing 60-63 are average and, since they are average, they are going to have trouble securing a spot in D1 or getting pitching time if they do since the slots have gone to 75MPHers.

Well first, thank you for completely misunderstanding what I was saying. No need to put words into my mouth, when you could have just looked up 'average' in the dictionary.

There are indeed several girls who were snatched right up by the elite softball programs. By the time the rest of the softball college coaches heard of these girls, the deals were done. These are the elite ones, the 1 in 100,000 softball pitchers. There are more than one, more than two, etc... The internet is a good tool, given some effort you can read about them.

As for the "average" girls, let me try and simplify this for you... they are the most common that we see starting in softball. Girls that are pitching for big D1's, some even bringing their teams to OKC in post season. There is nothing average about their performance, however their pitching speeds are indeed in the middle of the spectrum of softball pitchers. the 1 in 1,000 softball pitchers. The middle group, I called the average. Sorry.. the run of the mill average pitcher that you're going to see. Not the elite ones, and not the 3rd string bullpen queen. I hope that makes sense..

The third group, my opinion mind you, are the ones who may play college ball, but it most likely won't be on scholarship, and they're not going to be a starter. These are the most common, though not the ones you're really going to see at games. May have a good pitch, but just not starter material. Lower end of speed and pitches. Not the average, because you're not going to see much of them.

 

[joemcq51]

I can only speak to what I personally have seen with my own eyes. Having never seen a 70 mph pitch in person, doesn't mean they aren't out there. Living in Fla, I have seen some very elite level teams play. GCH, TNF, Fla Gold, Tampa Mustangs, Gainsville Gold. All teams that have represented the state very well nationally. All teams that have signed big time D1 pitchers. Every one of these teams has pitchers capable of throwing in the 60's. What makes them strong is the movement I see on the different pitches. That said, there are plenty of college teams that would kill for a pitcher who can throw high 50's with pitches that break. Just like I am sure a girl throwing 70 could pick her college assuming she had any GPA around 3.0

 

[absdad]

In spite of the doubters and nay-sayers, there are plenty of kids here in FL throwing 60+, and some that hit 70 with regularity. Not many, but some. Out there in the heartland, you might not think so, but here where we are, it is a fact.

You have to realize that some people who don't follow college softball with regularity, may not be aware. And they may not see it in their backyard; so it simply must not exist. Remember, at one time people thought the world was flat... maybe not the best analogy, but you know what I mean.