What wins in high school softball?

[CoogansBluff]

The other thread on high school ball made me want to break off into another perhaps less-controversial thread --

What kinds of teams win state titles in high school?

I've seen a fair amount of high school ball, but not with my daughter, who is still in middle. So I'm no expert.

But from what I've seen, obviously those schools that consistently have 5-6 travel players in every class are going to be good year in, year out. And if they have a great pitcher, as in gold-level, D-1, then they'll probably win state.

The other state contender is the one that has a handful of older travel players and one pitcher who has signed D-1. Those teams are more dangerous, IMO, because a pitcher like that in high school is very tough to handle, and five good players around her is all the defense (and offense) that she needs. You don't need 9 good defenders when the pitcher is striking out 2 per inning.

The local high school team where I live has been a Top 10 team the past two seasons, and they're the kind with a travel girl at every position, but their pitching is just very good, not awesome. She'll go 23-2, but inevitably inevitably, this team will get shut down by an awesome pitcher somewhere between the round of 16 and the semis. There's always gonna be somebody who's got one and enough cast around her.

If you have a truly great pitcher and no cast, that won't get it.

What do you think?

 

[slingnit]

The other thread on high school ball made me want to break off into another perhaps less-controversial thread --

What kinds of teams win state titles in high school?

I've seen a fair amount of high school ball, but not with my daughter, who is still in middle. So I'm no expert.

But from what I've seen, obviously those schools that consistently have 5-6 travel players in every class are going to be good year in, year out. And if they have a great pitcher, as in gold-level, D-1, then they'll probably win state.

The other state contender is the one that has a handful of older travel players and one pitcher who has signed D-1. Those teams are more dangerous, IMO, because a pitcher like that in high school is very tough to handle, and five good players around her is all the defense (and offense) that she needs. You don't need 9 good defenders when the pitcher is striking out 2 per inning.

The local high school team where I live has been a Top 10 team the past two seasons, and they're the kind with a travel girl at every position, but their pitching is just very good, not awesome. She'll go 23-2, but inevitably inevitably, this team will get shut down by an awesome pitcher somewhere between the round of 16 and the semis. There's always gonna be somebody who's got one and enough cast around her.

If you have a truly great pitcher and no cast, that won't get it.

What do you think?

Around here there are many teams that win the title because of the system, not so much the players. Obviously there are the occasional stacked team that wins it all. But some of the schools will get kids and parents to buy into their system. They will get the kids playing in it at 10-12u and they learn the HS coach's way of doing things, he will even help at practices. When they win it, it is usually with average or just above average talent. Pitching is good, not great. They are just all on the same page. There is no confusion on defensive schemes, signs, etc.... They all learn the exact same thing for 5+ years.

 

[marriard]

One thing I learned quickly is that high school is so varied from area to area that you can't really draw conclusions about anything high school related without discussing the local HS area and how serious/not serious HS is taken.

Florida gets deeper with talent and players every year and HS ball is pretty serious - travel for 16U/18U doesn't really kick off seriously until after HS ball has finished. You want to win state - in most divisions you not only need a roster full of travel players you better have multiple players who are going to play college. For the most part it doesn't matter WHAT college or college level they are going to - just taking the game serious enough that college softball is something they want to do. One local HS coach who works with our travel team as batting coach was talking to our girls and said "I play the 9 best bats and figure out where they go in the field plus I need 2 pitchers and a third developing one" - they came within one run of the largest division title down here last year. Another local private HS sent their BACKUP catcher to a D1 school and their 2nd pitcher also went D1 (their #1 is going D3 at a specialist degree school which is going to suck for all the other teams in their division the next few years).

I imagine the California HS scene is probably very similar.

 

[Easton33]

What it takes to win is defined by class, 1a-3a I think a solid D2 level pitcher, control but not much speed, and a couple of other D2 types sprinkled around the field will get you there. 4a and up you need D1 pitcher, D2 catcher, and two or three other college bound players or TB players to support.

 

[coach james]

As said above size/class is very relevant, but if theres a coach who doesn't play politics and favorites, and simply plays the best players while having the majority of the team being travel players and also has an absolute stud pitcher.... its most likely in the bag.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Good answers. ...

Probably depends on the state, as well. ... For bigger schools in the bigger sunshine states like California, Texas, Georgia, Florida, it's going to take more than Ohio, Pennsylvania. Not that there isn't good softball up there, but would folks agree?

 

[Easton33]

Good answers. ...

Probably depends on the state, as well. ... For bigger schools in the bigger sunshine states like California, Texas, Georgia, Florida, it's going to take more than Ohio, Pennsylvania. Not that there isn't good softball up there, but would folks agree?

Good point, what are the top 10 softball states?

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Where I played my ASA ball, in Casey IL. won the state championship, time after time under Coach Denny Throneburg. He was successful in girl's basketball, too. He was a men's pitcher in softball and has trained probably 1000s of little girls. How did he win so many state championships? He worked and volunteered for decades at it. He coached many of the girls from the time that they were little bitty. He was fair and firm and insisted on getting the job done, in my opinion.

 

[CoogansBluff]

If you've got a high school with parental support and resources, then I believe the talent is there to be outstanding in most anything. So then the question becomes which sports have the tradition and coaching and the good feeder programs.

When I coached 10U rec about 4-5 years ago, we had three girls show up who were friends and who'd never played softball. They carpooled together. They had a great time and improved very quickly, but ultimately chose other sports, or returned to sports they'd already begun. Today, one is the only freshman on a state championship high school volleyball team, and the other two are ranked in the top 15 in the state in a very strong tennis state. And this school's lacrosse team, non-existent 10 years ago, has become a state contender. Meanwhile, the softball team - which won a state title about 12 years ago - is terrible, with no pitcher, losing games 15-2. No question that they could be great in softball or any sport because the school has plenty of athletes, but the best athletes aren't choosing that sport now in this particular district for whatever reason. Meanwhile, two bordering school districts have state contenders. Not sure why those trends occur, but they are significant.

 

[CoachKevin]

Been following HS Softball for about 6-7 years now. In our State it is pitching. If a team has a dominate pitcher, they will go far. Typically within the State there will be 2-3 outstanding pitchers those teams usually face each other in the Finals, unless they are both in the same bracket. Out of all these years, there has only been 1 team that was seeded 4th in their Conference go on and win State. For some reason everything came together for them.