Trying to mmeasure hitter aggressiveness

[CoogansBluff]

But, since you expressed an honest opinion and gave your idea about what you wanted to see, I’ve done what I can to give it to you. In fact I even added overall pitches per AB and threw in a little color for ya.

Didn't have to do that, but appreciate that you did. ...

Does it make it easier for me to follow? Yeah, a little bit. I do notice that the two best hitters rank 2nd and 3rd on the team in the percentage of their hits coming on the first pitch. Certainly shows that those two hitters are effective being 'aggressive.' So that's interesting. I might study it a little further and report back.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Didn't have to do that, but appreciate that you did. ...

I don’t mind trying to get at the truth. What’s great for me is, usually when I do something totally new like this, I learn something.

Does it make it easier for me to follow? Yeah, a little bit. I do notice that the two best hitters rank 2nd and 3rd on the team in the percentage of their hits coming on the first pitch. Certainly shows that those two hitters are effective being 'aggressive.' So that's interesting. I might study it a little further and report back.

I’m assuming you’re looking at the aggressive metric in conjunction with the twostrike metric. But just to be sure, will you give me a bit more detail of what you’re looking at? I’m often thrown when someone says something like “best hitters” without defining how they determine “best”.

I see the 2nd and 3rd players in the percentage of their hits on the 1st pitch as Adams and Folena using the twostrike metric. But I don’t know how you determined they were the 2 best hitters unless it was by using OPS. Just to help out with that, I’m linking to raw batting stats for all the players.

http://www.infosports.com/scorekeeper/images/batting1.pdf

If you look closely you’ll see that by just about any measure, Folena was the “best” overall hitter the team ever had. Other have done “better” at individual things like number of walks, but he ranks so high in so many categories, its pretty cut and dried.

Adams is a different story entirely. He fell into the trap of being far and above the most athletic player in the program by any measure. He worked hard, but unfortunately those who were “guiding” and “advising” him didn’t do as good as could have been done, and his hitting suffered for it. Fortunately, his reputation always preceded him, and he was walked a lot. That’s what gave him the good OPS, but he never really was one of the “best” hitters on the teams he played on.

 

[CoogansBluff]

I was looking at PCT of all hits that came on the first pitch. By 'best hitter', I perhaps should've said 'most productive' or 'most valuable' hitter, and I was basing that on OPS. I'm also looking at the list w/ only 11 players. I don't have Bryan Murphy, to name one good hitter, on that list. When you say Adams was never ''never really was one of the “best” hitters on the teams he played on,'' are you comparing him to all those players, or just those 11? I don't care if he was getting on by reputation or not, I'd consider his production to be very good relative to the other 10.

 

[Scorekeeper]

I was looking at PCT of all hits that came on the first pitch. By 'best hitter', I perhaps should've said 'most productive' or 'most valuable' hitter, and I was basing that on OPS.

OK. I hope you understand that I’m not arguing whether or not you definition is valid, because it obviously is for you. It just that everyone seems to have their own definition and its sometime difficult separating the wheat from the chafe.

I'm also looking at the list w/ only 11 players. I don't have Bryan Murphy, to name one good hitter, on that list.

That’s an easy one to explain. Prior to 2012, I was scoring the old fashioned way with paper and pencil and entering all the data by hand. After the 2011 season, I converted my stat program to a scoring program that scores the game and creates almost all of the data automatically, and because of that, there’s a lot of data now available that wasn’t available before. For example: whether a pitch is a ball, a called strike, fouled strike, missed strike, BIP strike, ball in the dirt, or strike in the dirt, and that data is needed in order to create that particular metric. Murphy didn’t play after 2011, so I don’t have data for him.

When you say Adams was never ''never really was one of the “best” hitters on the teams he played on,'' are you comparing him to all those players, or just those 11?

All hitters. I have to say though, how I judge hitters is likely very different from most folks. Remember, I not only score the game and create the data, I create and send the coaches a set of game stats after every game that only looks at that game, then I create and post the many other metrics that include the entire season, and once a week I create and post the many other metrics that look at all players and all games that have ever taken place in the program. So I’m seeing all the players measured in many different ways and in comparison to all the other players, on top of watching the game and talking to the players and coaches.

I don't care if he was getting on by reputation or not, I'd consider his production to be very good relative to the other 10.

Please don’t get me wrong! He was a very important part of the team’s great success. He is easily the fastest player I’ve ever seen in HS, and besides what it meant as a center fielder, he was a force on offense because of that speed. He stole bases literally at will, stealing home twice in one game. Take a look at the “disrupt1” attachment and you’ll get an idea about how scary he was as a runner. Keep in mind he only played V as a So, Jr, and Sr, but he’d blown out a knee playing FB as a Jr, so he only played minimally that season, and he wore a knee brace his entire Sr season, and was still by far the fastest player I saw that season.

View attachment disrupt1.pdf

But to be honest, ranking his skills value to the team, his fielding was # 1 and his base running #2. His hitting (because of some bad instruction) was weak at best. So, as far as HITTING, as in putting the ball in play, he really wasn’t much of a threat compared to the other players. However, as far as PRODUCTION and what value he added to the team, he was an amazing addition. After all, who wouldn’t want a 6’3”/185# 17YO who could run a 4.6 40 with a knee brace a year after he’d had knee surgery, and would draw a walk at least once in every 6 plate appearances?

The great thing about BB and SB is that there's no one way to judge anything! We get to base our opinions on everything from a player's height and weight, to the in depth analysis of what are the most varied and detailed statistics in sports. I love that because everyone gets to be both right and wrong depending on who they're talking to.