Thinking before we type

[halskinner]

Coaches and instructors that seem to be wearing blinders.

I hope everyone who reads this remembers there is more than one way to get from Los Angeles to New York. There are many ways and they will all get you there.

I just have to sit back and shake my head sometimes when I read posts that refer to 'the fastball', 'the dropball', 'the curve' , etc. as if there is only one way and/or one specific grip is THE ONLY way it is thrown. Advice is given that makes me think the poster knows of ONLY one way to throw that particular pitch.

There is also more than one pitching style and most of the time, replys to questions can be very direct and pointed to only one style of pitching and could NOT be applied to the other.

There are more than one type of wind ups that can be used with the different styles.

Lots of variations here with lots of variables.

Before any of us old farts (that have been around the bases more than a few times) start flapping our gums with these pearls of wisdom, we need to consider the other possibilities. In other words; WE NEED TO GET MORE INFO because what might be the right advice for one pitch, grip or style may be the absolute wrong advice for another.

I have had to catch myself doing the same thing now and then.

Sometimes it seems to be like a race to see who can reply first, even if the response is not as well thought out as it should be (Yeah, I know, thats an opinion.)

Anyway, we seem to have a whole lot of new coaches and parents here lately on the pitching side and us old timers need to think a little longer before we type.

Hal

 

[MJs Dad]

Well spoken!

 

[jimginas]

good post... very good post

 

[sluggers]

tipeing befor thimkin? I wuld neber du that.

 

[Coach Stan]

The subject of this thread is the reason why I hesitate to provide feed back to those requesting info. If there is anything I have learned in the 40 years I have either pitched or taught pitching is I do not know everything about pitching and I am willing to learn more.

Hal and I have talked on this website and others concerning pitching and have had our agreements and disagreements but were able to discuss them in a rational manner. With the understanding that there is many ways to get the job done.

 

[BoardMember]

IMHO.....there is OPTIMAL.....and SUB-OPTIMAL.......there is no "in between"......

There are many ways to "be" both.........

 

[Ken Krause]

I think the implied message in any post should be "based on my experience" or "from what I've seen" or things like that.

I've stated this before in the hitting forum and I will repeat it here. No one here has the absolute, indisputable answers on how to pitch, hit, field, etc. If they did, there wouldn't be any debates and everyone would be doing it that way. We look at what top-level players do, we apply what we know of biomechanics to it, some of us even it try it ourselves. But in the end, it's still interpretation of the facts rather than actual facts. We assume cause and effect because it appears that way. But unless you can measure it scientifically, with control groups and all that, it's conjecture, not facts.

Open debate, as long as it's performed respectfully, is both healthy and encouraged. I learn a lot from the people I disagree with it if for no other reason than they make me think a little more about what I believe.

The objective here is to share what has been successful for the players we've worked with so others can learn from it. We may take different approaches, but that's ok. It's what makes life interesting.

 

[sjsss]

Personally I like the scrutiny that opinions on here get exposed to. If I express something that I believe to be true based on my experience, it is fair game to be examined and criticized. Likewise, when someone else posts their take on a subject, if there are holes in their theory I want the ideas challenged. This is the process for arriving at the truth. I know that some people by nature are rude and obtuse and present their opinions in a condescending manner, but it’s all good. That is how we learn, not by going into a discussion determined that all opinions are equally correct, because they are not.

I know a lot about pitching, but there are people on here that are far more advanced than I am. I want to learn from those people and really don’t care if their ideas offend someone.

 

[Hillhouse]

I had a few minutes and wanted to reply to this. I agree in principal with what Hal is saying but I dispute a portion of the message. I believe there IS right and wrong. There is a reason why all the best do the same things, mechanically. Our bodies are designed to work a certain way.. that means all of us. Male, female, boy or girl. For sure, male pitchers are stronger. Therefore they can throw pitches faster despite not using optimal mechanics. But that doesn't mean they are pitching correctly and are not going to have injuries. A LOT of male pitchers have to shut down early because their mechanics destroy their bodies. But the ones with optimal mechanics last forever, and when you compare them to the top female pitchers, they are doing virtually the same things with their bodies. Where a lot of pitching coaches go wrong is, many times they teach their own personal pitching STYLE instead of focusing on the positions the body MUST be in (referred to as 'absolutes'). The way I get into certain positions is not important, the fact that I get into those positions IS important and is what needs to be taught. There are multiple ways to grip a riseball (for example) but there is no disputing that there is right and wrong spin. My problem, which I will never stop fighting, is that the mechanics so many people teach PROHIBIT a pitcher from being able to achieve that spin. As a result, the coach tells the pitcher to "lean back and angle high". Sorry, that's not a riseball. It's not a matter of gender or muscle.. it's about getting the body to work in the way it's designed. I didn't invent it, I didn't create it, but if I didn't do things the way I do, I wouldn't be able to do what I do!

This is of course about mechanics, not strategy or philosophy.

Then again, what do I know?

Bill

 

[CoachFP]

Bill, I was at a college showcase today with about 40 teams in it. I can tell you that about 90 percent of the pitchers had "major" flaws in their motions. A lot were stepping off the power line, not turning properly and most had a host of other obvious problems. I'll bet that most of these people have pitching coaches who hold themselves out to be experts. They can theorize about pitching but don't know themselves what is correct and what is a matter of style. A style thing would be keeping the ball in the glove vs the arm swing back. As long as the resulting pitch is properly thrown who cares. Girls are capable of replicating the motions required to pitch optimally but many are allowed to start off doing it wrong and by the time you get them it is too late.