There’s No Good Reason to Squeeze the Strike Zone

[BillyB]

If that is the rule why is it crazy? Would be like saying I know the book says the line is fair but if it lands on the liune it sould be called foul.

Because armpits is a super high strike target that induces bad swings...as umpires are not robots and tend to call wider/taller zones overall. Bottom of sternum to knees is fair in my opinion.

 

[Rolling Hard]

The NCAA wants it that way. Homeruns and action are far more important to them than strikeouts. I have seen it firsthand when they are going through the umpire recruiting process at big tournaments. The zones are tighter, and the pitchers are having to adjust to it. It actually doesn't bother me as long as they are consistent!!! I do agree that many hitters leave the bat on their shoulder waiting to get ahead in the count as well. I can't tell you how many times I saw college hitters take first pitch strikes down the gut last year.

Watching a little Athletes Unlimited Pro Softball and wow what a tight zone. Pitchers shaking their head. But it makes for a higher scoring game.

 

[Towny9]

The strike zone discussion makes me think about how the robo umpires MLB debuted in the minors kept having to be tweaked because no one wants it to be called the way the rule book is written.

For example, they adjusted the automated system to call it as it crossed the middle of the plate, as opposed to “any part of the plate” because the system was too good.

Another example - the strike zone is really a cube, but it gets called more round in reality.

 

[lostcreek1]

Because armpits is a super high strike target that induces bad swings...as umpires are not robots and tend to call wider/taller zones overall. Bottom of sternum to knees is fair in my opinio

Because armpits is a super high strike target that induces bad swings...as umpires are not robots and tend to call wider/taller zones overall. Bottom of sternum to knees is fair in my opinion.

I think drop third strike rule is stupid, but I never see an umpire just not call it because he don't like it. That's why they make rules and put them in a book.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

Expecting umpires in amateur sports to be perfect when even the seasoned veterans of MLB make bad calls is silly. I will admit that I prefer a larger strike zone, up and down, but maybe that's the pitcher Dad in me coming out.

Enjoy these bad calls...

 

[BillyB]

I think drop third strike rule is stupid, but I never see an umpire just not call it because he don't like it. That's why they make rules and put them in a book.

I'm just saying from an overall hitting perspective whether baseball or softball. I think armpits is absolutely insane to include that high into the strike zone, knowing as we all do that umpires usually expand zones more often than not... I understand whatever rules are set should be called by what rules are set, as I'm not arguing that. I'm stating it's wrong to think that the armpits should be at the top end of the strike zone... it's just super high and in no way should the zone be cranked up that high, just to potentially lower the scores of games.

 

[BrianTx01]

I don't think anyone expects umpires to be perfect but the problem is some umpires feel it is "cool" to have a tight "college strike zone"....even if they are umpiring a 12U game. I have literally heard umpires say their zone is top of the knees to belt....ball fully over plate. If actual college umpires called the zone this way 40 runs would be scored every game.

They problem with these ridiculously tight zones is we ge young pitchers throwing 30% more pitches a game and batters leaving their bat on their shoulder waiting to either walk or.get a 3-2 meatball.

 

[BillyB]

I don't think anyone expects umpires to be perfect but the problem is some umpires feel it is "cool" to have a tight "college strike zone"....even if they are umpiring a 12U game. I have literally heard umpires say their zone is top of the knees to belt....ball fully over plate. If actual college umpires called the zone this way 40 runs would be scored every game.

They problem with these ridiculously tight zones is we ge young pitchers throwing 30% more pitches a game and batters leaving their bat on their shoulder waiting to either walk or.get a 3-2 meatball.

Yah, that's not cool either!

 

[The Man In Blue]

My balance comment was really on just the 50/50 calls. Umpires are going to be about 50/50 on the bang bang plays. I just want my 50% and the other team can have theirs. I don’t want to be on the wrong end of all the close ones - that’s all.

You still don't get it. That is not how it works. To imply it does or expect it to work that shows your complete and utter bias.

Since we are on this topic and I believe it was mentioned differently in this thread, I hate the "makeup call." What the heck? We all make mistakes and umpires are no different. IMO, ok, so call the rest of the game the way it should be called. The hitter who has the "makeup call" will have an at bat where the hitter doesn't know what the strike zone is for that umpire and that might change the game for others. If you make a mistake, move on. BTW, I also don't believe that coaches should promote the notion of a makeup call. JMHO!

Uggghhhhh! This is another thing that NEEDS TO STOP. Just because the next banger or borderline pitch goes the other way does not make it a "make up call." Knock it off already.

Y'all just prove my point that we should just throw the towel in and say the definition of strike should be "the pitches my pitcher throws", and the definition of ball should be "pitches the other team's pitcher throws."

I want to know where you can find the umpire that calls 4 inches above the belt?

This. I know it is commonly said on here, and I cannot say it doesn't happen, but I can say that in 15+ years of umpiring and a lifetime around the game, I have NEVER seen this playing, calling, watching, nothing.

Could it be that bias (refer back to top of thread)?

In my experience small strike zones discourage hitting. They encourage hitters to keep the bat on their shoulders and wait for either a perfect pitch or a walk.

This. And I will go back to my "not every good pitch is a strike and not every bad pitch is a ball" mentality to ask WHY ARE YOU TEACHING YOUR BATTERS TO ONLY HIT STRIKES?

Hit the pitch you like and can drive or control. I don't care where it is.

The strike zone discussion makes me think about how the robo umpires MLB debuted in the minors kept having to be tweaked because no one wants it to be called the way the rule book is written.

For example, they adjusted the automated system to call it as it crossed the middle of the plate, as opposed to “any part of the plate” because the system was too good.

Another example - the strike zone is really a cube, but it gets called more round in reality.

Ehh, not exactly. While you are correct about the flaw of most ABS systems only measuring the ball at one 2-dimensional point in a 3-dimensional world, you are not correct that the system was "too good." The system sucked. It still sucks because MLB doesn't want to spend the money it takes to get it to "good." Right now, it is "adequate" for their wants and needs. If they want to sink the money in, the Eagle Eye system is the best they can do. They have been testing it. It does track the ball's path pretty accurately.

The other big flaw is they do not adjust it in real time for batters. They use either pre-programmed points (which is flawed) or league average points (even more flawed).

Currently, there are multiple possible interpretations of the hard data produced by MLB. The "TV box" is not accurate at all and is used for TV broadcasts. The raw data is the seemingly "real time" data produced on pitches. Then MLB processes the data to another standard and that is what is actually used in umpire grading. All of those still have a margin of error.

The strike zone is not a cube. It is a heptahedron. (I need to fix that in my earlier post. I erroneously called it a dodecahedron. I teach English, not math.)

I don't think anyone expects umpires to be perfect but the problem is some umpires feel it is "cool" to have a tight "college strike zone"....even if they are umpiring a 12U game. I have literally heard umpires say their zone is top of the knees to belt....ball fully over plate. If actual college umpires called the zone this way 40 runs would be scored every game.

They problem with these ridiculously tight zones is we ge young pitchers throwing 30% more pitches a game and batters leaving their bat on their shoulder waiting to either walk or.get a 3-2 meatball.

Again, not cool. Trained to call it that way. When you train yourself to have instincts, it is difficult to overcome those But hey, like I said, keep hating on the guy who "came down" for a 75% pay cut to help out so your team could play.

If you have heard umpires say that, they are also still wrong as that is not even the college strike zone. Trust me, NCAA is not training that. While I can believe Ol' Smitty may still be going out and doing that, it isn't because anybody trained him to.

 

[Cannonball]

You still don't get it. That is not how it works. To imply it does or expect it to work that shows your complete and utter bias.



Uggghhhhh! This is another thing that NEEDS TO STOP. Just because the next banger or borderline pitch goes the other way does not make it a "make up call." Knock it off already.

Y'all just prove my point that we should just throw the towel in and say the definition of strike should be "the pitches my pitcher throws", and the definition of ball should be "pitches the other team's pitcher throws."



This. I know it is commonly said on here, and I cannot say it doesn't happen, but I can say that in 15+ years of umpiring and a lifetime around the game, I have NEVER seen this playing, calling, watching, nothing.

Could it be that bias (refer back to top of thread)?




This. And I will go back to my "not every good pitch is a strike and not every bad pitch is a ball" mentality to ask WHY ARE YOU TEACHING YOUR BATTERS TO ONLY HIT STRIKES?

Hit the pitch you like and can drive or control. I don't care where it is.



Ehh, not exactly. While you are correct about the flaw of most ABS systems only measuring the ball at one 2-dimensional point in a 3-dimensional world, you are not correct that the system was "too good." The system sucked. It still sucks because MLB doesn't want to spend the money it takes to get it to "good." Right now, it is "adequate" for their wants and needs. If they want to sink the money in, the Eagle Eye system is the best they can do. They have been testing it. It does track the ball's path pretty accurately.

The other big flaw is they do not adjust it in real time for batters. They use either pre-programmed points (which is flawed) or league average points (even more flawed).

Currently, there are multiple possible interpretations of the hard data produced by MLB. The "TV box" is not accurate at all and is used for TV broadcasts. The raw data is the seemingly "real time" data produced on pitches. Then MLB processes the data to another standard and that is what is actually used in umpire grading. All of those still have a margin of error.

The strike zone is not a cube. It is a heptahedron. (I need to fix that in my earlier post. I erroneously called it a dodecahedron. I teach English, not math.)



Again, not cool. Trained to call it that way. When you train yourself to have instincts, it is difficult to overcome those But hey, like I said, keep hating on the guy who "came down" for a 75% pay cut to help out so your team could play.

If you have heard umpires say that, they are also still wrong as that is not even the college strike zone. Trust me, NCAA is not training that. While I can believe Ol' Smitty may still be going out and doing that, it isn't because anybody trained him to.

Banger? In my experience that wouldn't be a "make up call." These type calls are those that are out of the zone which is why I mentioned that a hitter doesn't know what the zone in after one of these calls. You can deny that this happens if you wish.