Teenage Girls, Softball and Bullying

[RichK]

Hey Bishop, my point was about raw talent on a high school team. I think high school is an overall environment, if that makes sense. Not just a 12-player team (like a travel team). So I think seniors do deserve some favor over freshman, for instance, just to put in place an order of orderly succession. And considerations like school grades, behavior, overall academic/sports environment come into play.

I know there's a huge gap of misunderstanding and distrust between travel and high school ball....I think in part because they are really trying to accomplish different goals but don't always realize it.

 

[starsnuffer]

Interesting thread. It makes me wonder if I am alone in believing that girls will create drama even where no drama exists, and that in doing so, it actually prepares them better for life then if all of these situations were diffused by coaches/adults.

It seems to me that a better question to ask would be, "Where do we (coaches/parents) draw the line where bullying is concerned?". Do we expect all of our players to get along and respect each other while they play for us? Probably, but do those expectations continue off the field? Is creating a "cult of respect" amongst the team better for the girls then taking a more liberal view to how drama happens and the lessons learned from being subjected to it? I don't have good answers, but I'm curious as to what other people think.

-W

 

[changeupskill]

When I was in 5th grade, a neighborhood boy took my bike. I walked to the little corner store / hangout for a lot of us kids back in the day. Saw my bike and the kid coming out and getting on it to get away. I grabbed him and the bike, blah blah blah and got it back. Went home and did my chores. Later that day, the boy, the big brother and 3 friends came storming to my house saying I was a bully and was gonna kick my ahem... I tried explaining everything but it was just getting hotter. My dad walked out of the house and asked what was going on etc, the other boys told him what was going on and he laughed and said get on with it. But he told the boys, if you are going to all kick his (my) butt, they were going to do it one at a time, not 5 on 1. I fought 3 of those boys before they decided it was enough and left. My dad made two points. Defend what you did. (took my bike back) Also, put yourself in their shoes, if you start something, you had better be able to finish it or someone else will. Thinking about what the OTHER boys did, and got, has stuck with me my entire life. I never wanted to be in their position because of stupidity.

We have taught our DD to pick her battles and live with it. If she wants to be a smart a$$, hateful, backstabbing and drama queen etc, then she had better be prepared to get her a$$ kicked by someone that is tired of taking it from others. Honestly, if my daughter is a witch or ridiculously snotty to anybody, much less teammates, I would expect her to have a fat lip real quick because someone popped her in the mouth. NO, I don't WANT her or anyone fighting, but she knows mommy and daddy is not going to fight her battles or strike a lawsuit and she has to deal with whatever happens. Now that ig-mo kids carry guns, she knows thats a real possibility and could happen at any time. Needless to say, she's not a witch or nasty to people. Good or bad, she tries to be nice to everyone.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I didn't know what ig-mo meant. I do, now.

 

[lawdawg]

“The sooner you learn that life is not all about you the happier you will be”.

As much as I hate to give credit to anything Alabama (as long as Saban is there) - very WELL SAID.

 

[Bishop]

Hey Bishop, my point was about raw talent on a high school team. I think high school is an overall environment, if that makes sense. Not just a 12-player team (like a travel team). So I think seniors do deserve some favor over freshman, for instance, just to put in place an order of orderly succession. And considerations like school grades, behavior, overall academic/sports environment come into play.

I know there's a huge gap of misunderstanding and distrust between travel and high school ball....I think in part because they are really trying to accomplish different goals but don't always realize it.

No misunderstanding between travel and school ball for me. Same kids, same coaches and same goals in the short and long term. Yeah, I know. We are doing it wrong. I hear it all the time.

Your point is certainly valid about your schools program if that is the way your coach and athletic director choose to run the program. Right or wrong, that isn't the way our school ball program runs. The over all goal of the program is to win the 2A state championship as often as possible. That is the coaches goal and the AD's goal. That won't be accomplished by giving seniors spots in the starting line up because they are entitled to them for services past, time in grade or whatever other non-skills based criteria you throw at it. I'd like to suggest it's a cultural thing. Our girls get it from 10u up. School ball is for winning championships. Summer ball is about building skills to be able to win championships in school ball.

As much as they might not like the reality of situation when it jumps up and bites them, they know. If they want to play, they better work hard to be the best ball player they can be because there are plenty of other girls out there that want to play too.

 

[Bishop]

Interesting thread. It makes me wonder if I am alone in believing that girls will create drama even where no drama exists, and that in doing so, it actually prepares them better for life then if all of these situations were diffused by coaches/adults.

It seems to me that a better question to ask would be, "Where do we (coaches/parents) draw the line where bullying is concerned?". Do we expect all of our players to get along and respect each other while they play for us? Probably, but do those expectations continue off the field? Is creating a "cult of respect" amongst the team better for the girls then taking a more liberal view to how drama happens and the lessons learned from being subjected to it? I don't have good answers, but I'm curious as to what other people think.

-W

At the risk of tasting shoe leather again, yeah I'll agree. I could be genetic, maybe. It definitely seems in a drama free environment someone will get something churning in short order. It usually is a female but there have been plenty of exceptions to that rule in my experience.

On the where is the line question? Um...what is the meaning of life?

I don't think you can talk about anything in absolutes. Certainly if the bullying is physical or the threat of physical harm, yeah step in. Nasty comments, snarky drama etc. I haven't yet. So far every time my DD has had her feelings hurt by something said by a team mate (so far, always some how skills related) I've told her all she can really do about it is prove them wrong on the field. It's worked so far but I'm sure her middle school team mates aren't any where near as viscious as high school aged girls can be. Hopefully, dealing with the drama at this age will thicken her skin and prepare her for the sharper knives of the older girls a few years down the road.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

Perhaps this is just selective memory but I certainly do NOT remember ever having the sense of "entitlement" I see in young people today when I was their age. Getting too long in the tooth, I suppose...

 

[SoftSocDad]

Perhaps this is just selective memory...

It's not selective at all. You're seeing the new reality exactly as it is.

I could identify those people all those years ago and most have turned out to be pretty much the same as one might've predicted: always a victim and passing the same 'entitlement gene' on to their kids, the young idiots that my kid now has to deal with.

Interesting thread. It makes me wonder if I am alone in believing that girls will create drama even where no drama exists, and that in doing so, it actually prepares them better for life then if all of these situations were diffused by coaches/adults.

I don't have good answers, but I'm curious as to what other people think.

I'm from the 'boys will be boys/kids will be kids' school of thought and I swear to every god, living or imagined, that people touting themselves as modern behavioral experts - you know, those people who believe kids should never be told the word 'no' - are anything but.

But in my world, inappropriate actions and behaviors of young kids generally need to be corrected on the spot.

If, for example, you don't allow your kids to take food into the carpeted areas of the home, then the exact same rules apply when their friends or cousins come over to play. If you know it takes 10 minutes to clean up after a play date and the other parent is coming for a 7pm pickup, then cleanup needs to begin at 6:50, no questions asked. If you - as the parent - continuously relax the rules for guests, don't complain when you're left with increasingly large messes to clean up.

At the same time, however, most childhood conflicts are not necessarily the result of a correctable behavior. Kids disagree for any number of reasons, one of the most common being that each wants his/her way, as do the others, and the worst parents are the ones who feel they absolutely must intervene every single time children have a disagreement.

Kids need to learn conflict resolution at very early age. Parents who won't allow that are crippling their children.

As kids get older, jealousy becomes a greater cause for discord and there are going to be petty rivalries wherever you look. When it comes to team sports, winning is more important than being the superstar...to ME. Not everyone feels that way, but that's the philosophy I'd impress upon my athletes, regardless of whether they bought into it.

In response to your question, unless someone's safety is in danger, I think you let things play out as they will. Just as I don't want kids sticking their noses into grown folks' business, neither do I think that parents/coaches should be involving themselves in adolescent drama. Be available to your kids/athletes, but let them handle their own business off the field.

 

[RichK]

Right or wrong, that isn't the way our school ball program runs. The over all goal of the program is to win the 2A state championship as often as possible. That is the coaches goal and the AD's goal. That won't be accomplished by giving seniors spots in the starting line up because they are entitled to them for services past, time in grade or whatever other non-skills based criteria you throw at it.

Bishop, I don't really have a problem with this because it's clear and plain and upfront and everybody knows the situation. I think the approach I described is the same way too. You are right it is cultural, and I'm politically correct enough to know different cultures are ok : >

I think part of the problem with HS ball is that sometimes there seems no rhyme or reason to decisions. I'm sure we've all seen that happen. That's when problems occur.

And to get back to the original point, I think a team culture like you describe would actually discourage bullying -- everyone (coaches, kids parents) would know the score and I imagine team leaders would emerge whose only goal is winning that state championship.

Where are you from in Illinois (so I can watch your 2A success!)?