Stay to Play

[Softball scholar]

Ive noticed that more and more, that our team is signing up for "Stay to Play" tournaments. For those who don't know, "Stay to Play" means you have to stay at and reserve a specific hotel as designated by the tournament director or whatever tournament authority running the tourney. A lot of times, they have a mileage rule. For example if your teams address is over 75 miles from the tourney, then you have to stay at the designated hotel. And if you don't, your team will be penalized or fined a specific amount normally in the range of 100s of dollars or even threatened to not allowed to play in the tournament.

This wouldn't be so bad if the tournament would negotiate a discounted rate, but from my experience, the parents end up paying a higher rate than what they normally could reserve the room for.
I think the tournament directors negotiate an agreement where they guarantee a certain of number of rooms to the hotel, then the hotel probably "kicks back" some money to the tournament director. Notice I said the word "Kick back". I really question if this is an ethical arrangement. If a govt was doing this, I think somebody would be going to jail.

I wont name hotels or tournaments, but the rate offered by the "Stay to Play" reservation site was $126 for our upcoming tournament. I checked on line and could have got the same hotel room for $101 through the hotels reservation system. Also, there were other hotels closer to the tournament site. Seems kind of crappy, since we all spend a boat load of money on travel softball. This seems like another way to squeeze more money out of parents. What to do other parents think about this? Maybe they should call these "Stay to Pay" tournaments.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Find out what the required number of room-nights are for your team at the STP rate and then once your team has reached the total, take some nights at the lower online rate.

I used to believe exactly as you do - that the tournament organizers are just taking a straight cash kickback from the hotels - but what you'll find is the extra cost helps the TDs to bring in (better) umpires from other areas. The hotels give back a certain number of room-nights in order to house the umpires. So, it costs parents more and saves the TDs some money, but there is a benefit to the players. Generally speaking, big national softball events need more umpires than the local areas can support.

 

[Softball scholar]

Good point. But why not just charge more gate or tournament fee to pay the umpires. Under the current scenario, the teams that are traveling further are the teams being charged the hotel premium to subsidize the umpires hotel costs. Kind of sucks that the local teams don't have to pay travel costs and the additional hotel kickback to get the umpires free rooms. The way I see it, the tournament director would have been getting rooms for traveling umpires anyway. This way he doesn't have to pay it and pockets the money saved. To me its an unequitable hidden tournament fee charged to traveling teams.

 

[InsidePitch]

The buy out fee for IDT in Boulder this year was 1700. We stayed at La Quinta for 160 per night when the normal rate is 120. What I don't like about it is many parents have rewards points in Marriot of Hilton and staying at LQ helped no one and they didn't have refrigerators.

 

[cuzmail]

Thanks Triple Crown for bringing this idea into the fold !

 

[YOCOACH]

Good point. But why not just charge more gate or tournament fee to pay the umpires. Under the current scenario, the teams that are traveling further are the teams being charged the hotel premium to subsidize the umpires hotel costs. Kind of sucks that the local teams don't have to pay travel costs and the additional hotel kickback to get the umpires free rooms. The way I see it, the tournament director would have been getting rooms for traveling umpires anyway. This way he doesn't have to pay it and pockets the money saved. To me its an unequitable hidden tournament fee charged to traveling teams.

Because the tourney fees would become cost prohibitive for many teams when they can find a comparable tournament at a couple of hundred dollars less and STP. The same thing with gate fees. Instead of paying $25-$30 for a weekend at a large showcase parents would probably double that. How many parents do you think would complain about that, so much so, that the HC would be looking for another tournament to play the following year? How long do you think it would take for word to get around? What it comes down to is 2 things...1) Being the HC is really like being a puppet President of a country. You think you have the control but in reality, the players and their families do. If they refuse to go to a certain tournament, then the team either doesn't play that weekend or plays somewhere else. 2) It's easier to swallow when few people actually take a hard look at how badly they're getting hosed since everyone seems to be in the same boat. If it appears like everyone is being treated equally, then most don't look further than the end of their nose so to speak. Appears is the operative word.

 

[Softball scholar]

Because the tourney fees would become cost prohibitive for many teams when they can find a comparable tournament at a couple of hundred dollars less and STP. The same thing with gate fees. Instead of paying $25-$30 for a weekend at a large showcase parents would probably double that. How many parents do you think would complain about that, so much so, that the HC would be looking for another tournament to play the following year? How long do you think it would take for word to get around? What it comes down to is 2 things...1) Being the HC is really like being a puppet President of a country. You think you have the control but in reality, the players and their families do. If they refuse to go to a certain tournament, then the team either doesn't play that weekend or plays somewhere else. 2) It's easier to swallow when few people actually take a hard look at how badly they're getting hosed since everyone seems to be in the same boat. If it appears like everyone is being treated equally, then most don't look further than the end of their nose so to speak. Appears is the operative word.

I disagree. From my experience, most coaches choose what tournament they want to go to. I wish our coach would get a little feedback from the parents on what tournaments we play in. We had no say in where were going. The other coaches we've played for have always decided the schedule Most coaches are only worried about the tournament entry fee, and could care less about "Stay to Pay" fees and gate fees. They have a limited team budget and the only cost comes out of the front end in entry fees. That's why backend fees like STP and gate fees are popular moneymaking techniques for big tournaments, the people paying them have very little input in deciding who goes to that tournament.


Here's an example of how these methods make more money for tournaments.


Tournament A: No gate fee or stay to pay

Costs per Team with 12 players:

Entry fee per team $900
Gate Fee = $0
STP = $0

Cost per team = $900
Cost per player =$75



Tournament B: Gate fee and stay to pay with lower entry fee as a result getting more coaches to sign up for the tournament.


Enrty Fee per team = $700
Gate fee: $20 per person or $40 for both parents: $40 *12 = $480
STP fee: $30 per night x 3 nights * 12 rooms $1,080

Total cost per team: $2,260
Cost per player $188.33


Lets be real. The big tournament organizations are finding ways to maximize their profits by using stay to play. Its a hidden cost and they're using a kickback method to get us parents to dish out more cash. When you look at the real cash outlay, you can see how they're jacking us. I think naïve coaches see this example and think, that tournament is $200 cheaper. Lets go there when it really is costing their parents $100 each for the tournament. I guess it's good business. But you would think the mission on these tournaments is to provide an opportunity for young kids to play a team sport and develop skills to continue on at the next level. But it looks like more and more is a way to gouge zealous softball parents and to put more cash into the Orgs pockets.

Are the big organizations like Triple Crown and PGF not for profits or are they business going concerns?

 

[riseball]

...Are the big organizations like Triple Crown and PGF not for profits or are they business going concerns?

I do not think that either is a non-profit. Regardless non-profits are businesses, not charities. If teams are foolish enough to travel great lengths to play in tournaments where they accomplish exactly what they can do locally for far less money then there will always be a market.

 

[Softball scholar]

I do not think that either is a non-profit. Regardless non-profits are businesses, not charities. If teams are foolish enough to travel great lengths to play in tournaments where they accomplish exactly what they can do locally for far less money then there will always be a market.

That's a good point, and I think could provide for some great discussion on another thread. I know that's a point on contention on our team. Why drive out of state every weekend and pay for hotels (with Stay to Pay premiums) when you could sleep in your own bed and play local tournaments.

 

[marriard]

That's a good point, and I think could provide for some great discussion on another thread. I know that's a point on contention on our team. Why drive out of state every weekend and pay for hotels (with Stay to Pay premiums) when you could sleep in your own bed and play local tournaments.

You travel to either be better recruited (14U-A and up) or for better competition if none exists locally (any age).
Or once (maybe twice) a season as 'team trip' such as going to worlds, states, etc...
Any other reason is probably of limited value long term.

And if you are traveling more than 50% in 12U and below for any reason (including the above) you stand a really good chance of having your DD quit in 14U/16U.

'Stay and Play' started out as a way to track economic impact to the local city (i.e. part of showing what hosting a tournament brings to the local community). Now it has become a way to pay for other tournament costs and increase profit.

As airlines have shown, people don't count the 'extras' until they have to pay them. It is a fantastic way for tourneys to keep their entry fee as low as possible (even when it is large) but collect extra on the back end. Same with 'cooler restrictions', parking, gate fees, 'all star' games, vendor fees, etc, etc...