Should pitching instructors only be pitchers?

[Jojo]

Here is my take on lessons from instructors that pitch and those that did not.

When my DD was young and taking lessons we must have had 3 main instructors and 3 temps. Only 1 of the temps was pitcher, all others were non pitchers.

Her college coach also was a non-pitcher.

As she was learning, I taught myself, threw hours of BP, studied religiously through forums like this and internet sites, watched slow mo videos, asked questions.
I watched tons of college level pitchers and worked with her college instructor in a clinic.

I then begin instructing for free, I know several pitchers who have finished school and are giving lessons. Yes, they have pitched, but most of them only saw (1) instructor up until college.
They only know 1 way of doing anything, what their coach taught them, one way of throwing a change-up etc. They don't know why some things are done, they just know that's how they do it.

I also had several students come to me after seeing a very well known pitcher (won't say her name). They came to me and exclaimed "She wasn't a very good coach". I understood this because I also coached against her in tournament play and knew what they meant.
She was a great player, just not a very good coach.

 

[Mark H]

Some people are good at understanding cause and effect. Some are good at teaching. Some are good at doing. Finding one person that combines all three would be a smaller subset of each of those but they do exist. If I could only have two of the three I'd take the first two.

 

[batsics1]

I have an adjunct to the primary question: Who would you rather send your DD to, 1) an experienced coach with a good to very good understanding of the mechanics of pitching and a solid program for teaching who has never pitched, or 2) an elite pitcher with little or no experience teaching?

I have a couple of thoughts on the general discussion. The reality is that most pitchers will have 10 to 15 minutes of interaction with a PC each week. Obviously, those taking private lessons will have somewhat more time, but even so it is a small amount of time. That time can have a profound effect. But, against the backdrop of team practice, league games and/or weekend tournaments, and pitching practice outside of lessons it is a fraction of the time spent learning to pitch. Ken mentioned 2 critical factors in being a skills coach: 1) a deep and accurate understanding of why and how things work in the skill being taught, and 2) the ability to convey that understanding in a way your students can understand. These are the qualities of a technician.

I believe there is a third quality that is every bit as important: The ability to accurately evaluate. For example, a pitcher grows 2 inches in 6 weeks and suddenly becomes wild. Has the growth spurt caused her to change her mechanics or are her mechanics still fundamentally sound and she just hasn’t learned how to coordinate her actions? Another example, PC stresses stepping on the line with the foot at a 45 angle; dad spends three hours over the next week demanding DD does exactly that without regard to how, when and why. Dad comes back the following week and complains that DD is throwing everything low and inside. A third example, team coach walks into the circle and matter-of-factly tells the pitcher if she doesn’t throw strikes he will pull her. The pitcher tightens up and throws strikes. Parent comes to next lesson complaining DD is throwing much slower. How a PC evaluates and reacts to such situations can have as much effect on a pitcher as the ability to impart mechanical details.

I am reminded of a similar business issue: Is it better to hire a manager from the ranks or someone just out of college with a degree. There are pros and cons to each side.

Finally, an anecdote. When DD was 11 and relatively new to pitching she had several lessons from a D1 pitcher who was helping her regular PC over the summer. At one lesson the two were talking and I left my bucket to hear the conversations. As I approached PC was speaking and DD was nodding away with a less than attentive expression. PC stopped what she was saying and asked DD, “Are you nodding because you agree or because you want me to shut up”? DD’s eye got big as saucers and she began sputtering – totally busted. I had to turn around and walk back to my bucket to keep from falling over. To this day I don’t know if it was because the PC was female, a pitcher or was just speaking from general experience. I also don’t know if her regular PC, a male, had said the same thing if would have been as effective. What I do know is I will never forget that moment, I have asked the same question on occasion, and chuckle every time I think about it.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Oh, 8 YOs. I had something totally different in mind. I was think a 14 YO, looking to the fence for her dad, on every pitch. And I didn't know that you were the coach.

Like they say on Saturday Night Live, "Oh, never mind. Amy

 

[Mark H]

Still good information. Adjust for age and level as appropriate.

 

[go4fpsb]

Here is my take on lessons from instructors that pitch and those that did not.

When my DD was young and taking lessons we must have had 3 main instructors and 3 temps. Only 1 of the temps was pitcher, all others were non pitchers.

Her college coach also was a non-pitcher.

As she was learning, I taught myself, threw hours of BP, studied religiously through forums like this and internet sites, watched slow mo videos, asked questions.
I watched tons of college level pitchers and worked with her college instructor in a clinic.

I then begin instructing for free, I know several pitchers who have finished school and are giving lessons. Yes, they have pitched, but most of them only saw (1) instructor up until college.
They only know 1 way of doing anything, what their coach taught them, one way of throwing a change-up etc. They don't know why some things are done, they just know that's how they do it.

I also had several students come to me after seeing a very well known pitcher (won't say her name). They came to me and exclaimed "She wasn't a very good coach". I understood this because I also coached against her in tournament play and knew what they meant.
She was a great player, just not a very good coach.

JoJo, My path to instructing pitchers has been very similar to yours, so I appreciate your take .. I have also talked to several parents that have started their younger DD with former college pitchers that are teaching the push down, hand on top of the ball, wrist snap, point the elbow at the catcher and touch the shoulder with the hand style of pitching because they only know what they were taught 15 years ago starting out. Back when I started I bought Cheri Kempf's book which really only hinted at the Inner Rotation method. She got it as far as to think of holding a glass of water at pre release which was pretty good back then. As coaches we have to keep on learning and watch how the best in the world do what they do.

 

[halskinner]

Analogies

OK. Here is another one for this discussion;

You are about to go into battle. Who would you rather have leading your unit?:

1. A sarge that did three tours of duty in Viet Nam and has numerous medals for valor and bravery?

2. A Lieutenant, fresh out of the academy with no experience on the battlefield?


HHHMMMMMMMM

One knows what to have you do to defeat the enemy and survive to another day.

The other has taken lessons in class and is really good at staying behind and radioing in for evac choppers and body bags.

 

[bigboyk]

Hal, I agree with you last post and that is my point exactly. You must lead by example. If you cannot throw a pitch how can you teach it? I change my own oil, but I wouldn't claim to be a mechanic!!

 

[calgofo]

OK. Here is another one for this discussion;

You are about to go into battle. Who would you rather have leading your unit?:

1. A sarge that did three tours of duty in Viet Nam and has numerous medals for valor and bravery?

2. A Lieutenant, fresh out of the academy with no experience on the battlefield?


HHHMMMMMMMM

One knows what to have you do to defeat the enemy and survive to another day.

The other has taken lessons in class and is really good at staying behind and radioing in for evac choppers and body bags.

Patton, McArthur, Bradley were all second leutenants once. They did ok.
Generally considered by most to be some fine military minds.

Napolean was a corporal. Also considered a great military mind. Did have that Waterloo blemish though.

Hitler was an experienced corporal and had won the Iron Cross. WWII didn't work out so well for him.

Admittedly, I don't (to the best of my knowledge) think any of the above were pitching instructors though.

 

[halskinner]

Patton, McArthur, Bradley were all second leutenants once. They did ok.
Generally considered by most to be some fine military minds.

Napolean was a corporal. Also considered a great military mind. Did have that Waterloo blemish though.

Hitler was an experienced corporal and had won the Iron Cross. WWII didn't work out so well for him.

Admittedly, I don't (to the best of my knowledge) think any of the above were pitching instructors though.

I am sure the Lieutenant I cited probably graduated the top of his class too.

Me, I would fall into the old Sarge category. After my wreck in 1984, there were things I USED to be able to do great but could only give a simple and many times, not so great demonstration after that. I would have to explain that and then say "Don't do it like me,,, do it better. I'm old and really beat up,,, What's your excuse?"