Scrimmage starting with a 1-1 count

[knightsb]

When our team scrimmages, often times the HC starts the hitter with a 1-1 count to speed things up.

Is there an advantage to either the hitter or the pitcher starting with a 1-1 count?

IMO, there is an advantage to the pitcher because the hitter potentially has fewer pitches to see at a given AB.

 

[CoogansBluff]

2014 National League stats --

BA - .249
OBA - .312
SLG - .383

After a 1-1 count --

BA - .232
OBA - .300
SLG - .353

This makes you wonder if 'working the count' is such a good idea.

 

[wichita]

When our team scrimmages, often times the HC starts the hitter with a 1-1 count to speed things up.

Is there an advantage to either the hitter or the pitcher starting with a 1-1 count?

IMO, there is an advantage to the pitcher because the hitter potentially has fewer pitches to see at a given AB.

True but the reason for doing it is to keep the pitch count to a minimum for your pitchers because they're usually pitching non stop to hitters I.E. no breaks to rest.

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

2014 National League stats --

BA - .249
OBA - .312
SLG - .383

After a 1-1 count --

BA - .232
OBA - .300
SLG - .353

This makes you wonder if 'working the count' is such a good idea.

Ted Williams thought it was a good idea...

 

[CoogansBluff]

Ted Williams thought it was a good idea...

Bad choice of words perhaps on my part. If working the count means putting yourself in the best position to get a good pitch to hit, ie pitch selection, then that is the way to go.

I was thinking more about the strategy of trying to drive up the pitch count, which theoretically means the batters in the lineup see more pitches (hitters get more 'used' to the pitcher) and the pitcher is more likely to tire.

Being patient in order to get a good pitch to hit is probably the best mental advice that a hitter can receive. That was TW's first dictate, I believe.

Being patient in order to drive up the pitch count, I'm not so sold on that idea. That runs the risk of taking a good pitch to hit, and the fact that hitters don't so so well after the count of 1-1 and 0-2 is evidence of that.

 

[BobInMadison]

I question whether, in an early season scrimmage, starting with a 1-1 count helps the pitcher at all (except for lowering the pitch count).

Of course MLB results should be taken with a grain of salt, but in MLB the next pitch thrown on a 1-1 count is crucial.

A 1-2 count is far more favorable for the pitcher than a 0-1 count, while a 2-1 count is much better for the hitter than a 1-0 count.

If it early in the season and the pitchers are rusty, expect a lot of 2-1 counts.

 

[Ken Krause]

According to the Fastpitch Analytics blog, slugging percentages actually go up at 1-1 versus 0-0, so it would favor the hitter.

Heat map by count

 

[Greenmonsters]

According to the Fastpitch Analytics blog, slugging percentages actually go up at 1-1 versus 0-0, so it would favor the hitter.

Heat map by count

Important and interesting to note that the heat map by count provided depicts slugging percentage ON BALLS PUT IN PLAY, which specifically discounts foul balls and swing and misses. Kind of like how BA and BABIP can differ significantly.

 

[CoogansBluff]

According to the Fastpitch Analytics blog, slugging percentages actually go up at 1-1 versus 0-0, so it would favor the hitter.

Heat map by count

Need more data, IMO. What's most important is the production at 1-1 and after, not strictly at 1-1. In MLB, batters hit .322 at 1-1, but .232 during and after 1-1. The reason hitting stats look so good at 1-1 (and other counts without 2 strikes) is because you can swing and miss and it doesn't count against your average. It counts only balls put in play.

That said, the data you reference indicates that batters do better at 1-1 than 0-0, which is not the case in MLB. In MLB, hitters are just a little better at 0-0 --- .330 to .322.

So it could be that softball is a little different somehow. More stats needed. Wish every NCAA team, or even one conference, would keep pitch-by-pitch data. We'd probably learn something from it.

Of course, if MLB stats should be taken with a grain of salt, then we might say the same for NCAA softball stats as they relate to travel ball.

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

Bad choice of words perhaps on my part. If working the count means putting yourself in the best position to get a good pitch to hit, ie pitch selection, then that is the way to go.

I was thinking more about the strategy of trying to drive up the pitch count, which theoretically means the batters in the lineup see more pitches (hitters get more 'used' to the pitcher) and the pitcher is more likely to tire.

Being patient in order to get a good pitch to hit is probably the best mental advice that a hitter can receive. That was TW's first dictate, I believe.

Being patient in order to drive up the pitch count, I'm not so sold on that idea. That runs the risk of taking a good pitch to hit, and the fact that hitters don't so so well after the count of 1-1 and 0-2 is evidence of that.

Ted espoused taking pitches, even to the extent of watching strike 3 in a 1st at bat in order to see what the pitcher has. I'm with you on the whole driving up the pitch count thing - it worked for the 2002 Halos, but that's about it.

I'm not saying this will work in FP - we have 2 fewer innings - but seeing pitches is probably as important.