RIP to the hit king

[Strike2]

I am not even remotely religious. I don't believe in any deities. But the quote about casting the first stone feels applicable here. You better not live in a glass house if you're going to be casting any stones...

I guess with this logic, we shouldn't have any laws or rules that hold people accountable for their bad behavior? Perhaps you should study the context of that quote in a bit more detail.

I don't care whether Rose goes to the MLB Hall of Fame or not. He was a great player, and also a really crappy person for reasons well beyond gambling on games he was personally involved with. I know there are plenty of HOF players and other famous people who are even worse. One of the great flaws our society is that we put some really crappy people on pedestals because they are good at sports or some kind of performing art. It's no secret that there are often unequal standards and outcomes, especially for the rich, athletic, and famous. However, that doesn't mean that we reject any and all standards of behavior because somebody else wasn't punished enough.

 

[Vertigo]

Not disagreeing with your point about LT and the football HOF, but unless LT is in the baseball HOF, I don't see the relevance to Pete Rose. Same with OJ.

Like LE said - it’s an analogy. Just pointing out that in all of the various different HOFs there are many inductees of questionable and disgusting character, but they still got in.

 

[Roger Dorn]

Whichever side you fall on, I suggest watching the documentary on HBO.

The documentary is really good. It captures the all of the elements baseball fans in this country have been debating for decades. It also captures his self-sabotaging behavior all the way into his 80's.

I love Rose. I could listen to him talking about baseball all day long. Stories, technical hitting, etc. I hang on to every word he says regarding the sport. Pete and Lenny Dykstra needed a reality show of them slumming it around Philadelphia engaging in pure debauchery. Hit show!

I won't argue with anyone who says Rose should be in, I think there are valid arguments. The powers that be in baseball are very stuffy and love to gatekeep. However, my personal opinion is that he bet on baseball and that affected managerial decisions, even if he only bet on his team. He then lied about it for years. Even though I love Rose, I would have kept him out, too. His lack of integrity for the game and him the lack of remorse he had doesn't get much grace from me. His lifetime ban is now over and I would put him in next class. Again though, that's my opinion.

 

[CoachCeetar]

His lifetime ban is now over and I would put him in next class. Again though, that's my opinion.

he didn't get a lifetime ban. He's on the PERMENENTLY INELIGIBLE list. His deceased status is irrelevant.

Also on that list, Roberto Alomar. He was not kicked out of the Hall however. Of course his ban happened AFTER and was immaterial to his conduct on the field, something that can not confidently be stated about Rose.

If Rose had gotten in before any of the truth had come out, I doubt BBWAA would've ejected him, but he's not. Removing people is a different thing than not honoring them in the first place. There's no reason to go out of the way to bestow honors on terrible people, dead or not.

also Ichiro is the hit king.

 

[jdint]

Like LE said - it’s an analogy. Just pointing out that in all of the various different HOFs there are many inductees of questionable and disgusting character, but they still got in.

Right, I get what you are saying, but to me it's irrelevant unless these HOF's are somehow related, which as far as I know they aren't. Different sports, (the Rock n Roll hall of fame isn't even a sport), different governing bodies, different standards for induction...etc., so I don't see how the actions of one has any impact on the actions of the others.

Ty Cobb would be a more fitting analogy, assuming he actually was a person of questionable character, which seems to be in doubt..............I'm not sure that even fits the definition of "analogy", maybe more of an example.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

also Ichiro is the hit king.

Please tell me this is a joke. By your logic, Sadaharu Oh is the all-time home run king with 868 career homers...

 

[CoachCeetar]

Please tell me this is a joke. By your logic, Sadaharu Oh is the all-time home run king with 868 career homers...

Sure, why not?

If Ichiro had as many PA in MLB as Rose, with the same hit% he'd have surpassed him by 300 hits. .311 AVG to .303. If you had to pick someone for one plate appearance to get a hit, you're taking Ichiro over Rose.

Ichiro also owns the single season hits record, Rose's best season is tied for 36th with the likes of Tommy Davis. Ichiro is also 10th, and 18th.

 

[JayW]

It's called an analogy. They're sports heroes to many people, and they committed heinous crimes, yet they're in the hall. OJ did it after he retired, but LT did it while he was playing, yet it got swept under the rug.

No one is saying what he did was right. We're saying that between the lines, he was one of the best ever. The hall isn't some place for only the best of people. It's for the best players.

The only real analogy is Shoeless Joe Jackson and his teammates. Rose and Jackson are both permanently ineligible because they were involved in betting on baseball. In 1991, the HOF, which is independent from MLB, decided that being on MLB's permanently ineligible list made a player ineligible for the Hall. Jackson was eligible for the Hall up until that time. Rose was kept out of the Hall based on Rule 21, not some nebulous moral turpitude concerns.

Roberto Alomar was inducted into the HOF and subsequently placed on the Ineligible List for sexual misconduct. He is still in the HOF.

Rose is not in the Hall because he bet on baseball. He agreed to the ban from MLB.

So the argument is about whether he should be kept out for betting, not whether he's a swell guy, or whether LT or OJ or whoever else are swell guys.