Standing on First still awarded two bases.
- Thread starter RADcatchers
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So if a throw goes out of play untouched it's two bases from the time the throw left the fielders hand but if there's contact with the glove before it goes out of play it's one base from the time of contact?
Not necessarily.
The distinction is not whether the ball is "touched", it is whether the fielder "loses possession of the ball".
An "overthrow" (2 base award) is "a thrown ball from a fielder that goes beyond the boundary lines of the playing field". A thrown ball can touch a fielders glove without the fielder having possessed it. That would still be an overthrow, and a two base award.
If the fielder catches the throw, and the ball is knocked out of her glove into dead ball territory, she has lost possession, one base award.
You have to possess the ball to lose possession.
Hmmm?
for further perspectives...Runner arrives say simultaneously/or slightly previous as ball and there is interaction there with defensive glove. Ball goes into dugout.
Would not be an overthrow.
Considering perspective of,
mixing of contact caused opportunity for possession of ball.
Hmmm?
Runner arrives say simultaneously/or slightly previous as ball and there is interaction there with defensive glove. Ball goes into dugout.
Would not be an overthrow.
Considering perspective of,
mixing of contact caused opportunity for possession of ball.
Not sure what you're getting at. But the rule (at least in USA Softball) is clear.
There is not an exception for "opportunity to possess" the ball. The exception is for "loses possession" of the ball.
The rules supplement further explains "When a fielder loses possession of the ball on an attempted tag and the ball then enters dead ball territory or becomes blocked, all runners are awarded one base from the base last touched at the time the ball entered dead ball territory,"
You cannot attempt a tag without actually possessing the ball.
Your scenario could be a variety of things, including obstruction, or even potentially interference (if the interaction is intentional). But it cannot be the exception to the overthrow rule, unless the contact occurs while the ball is in the glove (or hand) of the fielder.
This part confuses me. It's presented as if she was standing on first base watching the play at 3rd unfold. How can that be if she didn't get to 1st base before the play was attempted at 3rd?
Not directly getting at any one specific point rather offering perspectives to situational things that happen. For discussion.
In the big picture
(which is more the reason of my post then the umpire in that one call they made)
...this added detail that folks are describing, is important as it relates to the Award of bases. Lot more to situations than just anyone presuming ball goes in the Dugout it's two bases. There are details that go along with that and there are details that go along with other decisions an umpire may have to make.
To your point of if the ball is in the glove even if it is for a split moment are you considering that possession of the ball? These are technical nuances that I know people and umpires view differently.
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... it's presented that the first base coach would have had time to see the play was going to third *before his Batter Runner was even at first.
That indicates that because the batter Runner had not gotten to first base yet
(if they were to be awarded extra bases)
that would be from that point *before they got to first base.
The Batter Runner should not have been awarded going all the way to Third Base.
As a side note I would not expect one umpire to be able to see what was happening along the third base line at the same time being able to view where the Batter Runner was on their way to first.
So not calling any flaw on that.
Just that there are details in awarding bases that I think are good for thorough discussion.
So not calling any flaw on that.
Just that there are details in awarding bases that I think are good for thorough discussion.
If the fielder is in possession of the ball and it is knocked out and into dead ball territory, yes it is one base but not from when it was knocked out. It is one base past the runners position when the ball enters dead ball territory. So, if the ball got knocked a long way down the line or was a very slow rolling ball before it entered dead ball territory and fast runners are moving they may get a long way around the bases and still get moved and additional base forward.
