Momo'sDad, on a caught fly ball or line drive, when the base left is tagged with the ball in possession, it is not a non-force! It is a FORCE out. The throw just has to beat the runner coming back to tag-up or take themselves out of jeopardy.
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- Thread starter 02Crush
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- Feb 3, 2011
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In his example, though, 02Crush specified that his runner had been caught leading off last year. Since he didn't state the opposing runner had taken a lead, I was given the impression that she did not. If she's on 1B when the batted ball is caught, there's no force, so the umpire was correct to call her safe.
I guess we need Coach to clarify what he saw, just to be sure.
1) Could be a couple of reasons. The runner may actually have tagged up, the OP is not clear on that point. If the runner did not tag up, the players failed to make it clear to the umpire that they were appealing the runner leaving the base early on the caught fly ball.
2) You or I were not there to see the extent or the circumstances of the collision. Just because players fall down is not always a reason to stop a live ball play. You are absolutely correct that an appeal should be ruled on when done LEGALLY. The description in the OP does not support that a legal appeal was made as I indicated in my initial reply.
Without any more information, or seeing this play, my first thought would be that these two umpires did almost everything correctly.
No. it's not. It is an appeal play. There is a difference.
- Feb 3, 2011
- 1,880
- 48
Another excellent point. Just to make sure I understand the rule and the application, is 1B appealing that the runner left early? By rule, the infielder is supposed to verbalize any appeals, but I have seen cases where showing the ball in the glove and contact with the base along with raised eyebrows has been enough to draw an out call.
A verbal is not required, but certainly makes things clearer. The defense must convey to the umpire what it is they are appealing. Often times, there are people yelling to throw the ball to such and such base or something similar so that the umpire knows what the appeal is for and can rule on it. When I am on the field and the defense throws the ball to a base for no apparent reason, I will ask what they are doing. That should make it clear to everybody what the appeal is for.
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
MomoD - I agree that sometimes situations that occur that you have to experience before you can fully understand the nuances even if you have read the rulebook. But, if any coach reads the rulebook, they should be pretty clear on WHO can make an appeal. Now if the question is about the flex and DP, I can understand that because I never understood it well enough to be confident I could apply it without shooting myself in the foot. The problem that many make initially (myself included) is that they assume they know the rules cuz they're "same as BB". I don't care if a coach embarasses him/herself, but its unacceptable and disrespectful to the game to not not teach your players the rules. Best advice I got from an umpire was to review the rulebook before every season starts because, even if you're a 15-year veteran, sometimes the rules are modified and, as you age up, sometimes you get forgetfull re the differences between the associations.
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
LOL. This is true, Steve! A day without learning something new is a wasted day, IMO.
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
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To start, where does it state it was a line drive and that the runner left early? And as my buddy noted, was there an appeal made? I'm not doubting it was, but I wasn't there and there must be some indication the purpose of the move was to make an appeal. Usually, the entire team screaming "tag first base" will do it
The coach MAY REQUEST time. Personally, I don't like the rule concerning stopping the play due to injury. How did any of use every survive games like this in the past? I do, however, understand it and apply it when it is apparent to me that the player(s) may need immediate medical attention. To some umpires, that is going to mean I've got to see a reason. A simple collision where neither player, at least to the best of our knowledge through the information offered, was not bleeding, knocked unconscious or broke any bones or suffered an life-threatening injury, is not cause to stop the game. Too many people, and I have experienced this numerous times, use this as an excuse. I have actually witnessed a player feign injury for the purpose of stopping the play, only to pop right up smiling when the umpire killed the ball.
To quote a public servant who was criticized for stopping a service people wanted, but was abused, "we don't have a problem doing this until someone makes it a problem". Again, not a big fan.
And also, as noted, a coach does not have the authority to make any appeal other than BOO.
02Crush
Way past gone
Not sure how to take you comment. But thanks (I guess) and I do. BTW...Did your read the encyclopedia and remember it all when done? Sorry for the sarcasm but in reality there would be no forums like this if it were not for so many not completely understanding all things. I see it differently. What kind of coach would I be if I did not seek the expert opinions of those who know better than myself.
