leading with bent elbow at 12 oclock position using IR

[durwood]

after reading "cutting arm circle short for riseball" thread got me thinking about DD arm circle. how much should the elbow be bent when arm is at 12 oclock and going to release. i have seen some pics of men at 12 oclock and their arms
bent with the elbow leading, they have more of a bend in the arm than woman. my DD is extended pretty straight but gets a slight bend at the 9 oclock mark. does she need more bend to get more whip or have misunderstood the IR thread.

 

[sluggers]

See for yourself. Here are Jenny Finch, Cat Osterman and Sarah Pauly

(Just click on the image to see a larger view):



Whip is a different concept than IR. "Whip" refers to the elbow leading the arm until release. At release, the elbow trails the hand and arm. IR refers to the rotation of the lower arm (the portion of the arm from the elbow to wrist) at release.

 

[Steve Huff]

See for yourself. Here are Jenny Finch, Cat Osterman and Sarah Pauly

(Just click on the image to see a larger view):

View attachment 1893

Whip is a different concept than IR. "Whip" refers to the elbow leading the arm until release. At release, the elbow trails the hand and arm. IR refers to the rotation of the lower arm (the portion of the arm from the elbow to wrist) at release.

Can you pull out and make those just a little more inclusive of the hands? By the way, this was a very good analysis.

 

[durwood]

thanks for clairifying the difference in whip and ir. i believe the whip is what i was trying to convey in the first place but did not do very well (being in a hurry). how to obtain better whip? with the pics you have provided, the mens elbow is bent more or appears to
be. could be the timing of the pic. when in the "K" position the ball is pointed at the batter is what im am seeing. we usually do not have that much a bend in the elbow. good or bad?

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

See for yourself. Here are Jenny Finch, Cat Osterman and Sarah Pauly

(Just click on the image to see a larger view):

View attachment 1893

Whip is a different concept than IR. "Whip" refers to the elbow leading the arm until release. At release, the elbow trails the hand and arm. IR refers to the rotation of the lower arm (the portion of the arm from the elbow to wrist) at release.

I have to disagree with the above statement. "Internal Rotation" is the notion that the shoulder complex, upper arm, lower arm, hand, and wrist wants to internally rotate to the center of the body (i.e. the position that the body would be in if you are standing upright facing forward and your arms are hanging relaxed to the side of your body naturally).

The whole idea that "Internal Rotation" only happens at or after the release of the ball is a fallacy. In fact the whole process of arm whip is using internal rotation as soon as the shoulder and arm reaches the 9 o'clock position (directly behind you to 2B), the hand will be "palm to the sky" and as the shoulder and arm continues forward they are continuously "internally rotating" into AND through release. Internal Rotation is what is generating arm whip and ultimately velocity to the pitch.

If Boardmember is around he can articulate the process better than I can.

 

[sluggers]

The discussion about IR has been moved to the thread "IR--One more time". If you wish to respond to the original post, please do so.

To paraphrase Ferris Buehler:

"The thread is over. Go to the other thread and post."