Pitcher bending arm TOO much

[radness]

Create awareness of what she cant feel~

By Looking in the mirror to see what she isn't feeling.
~stand in front of floor mirror and pitch/mechanics with no ball.

Then make adjustment you would prefer.
Which should feel and look different.

For brain to identify issue to correct.
Repeat.

(Bad habits can feel normal)

 

[sluggers]

She has to have her mind grow into her body.

The kid grew in height, and she is growing out as well. She is not used to having hips and a bosom. It is throwing everything off.

You have to be patient and start back at ground zero. Slow everything down, and just rebuild her.

My DD#3 was a great athlete until she 12YOA. She couldn't walk and chew gum. It was very frustrating for her and me. In about 2 years, she had gotten all of her coordination back. By the time she was 15YOA, she was back to being a superior athlete.

 

[Traps71]

Just a thought: My DD used to use a long backswing. Her arm was mostly straight and she would twist her trunk as the backswing reached its apex behind her. Looked kinda crazy. Somehow she got everything back together by the time she released her pitch, but she didn’t have much whip and was wasting energy. Like you, I tried everything I and others more experienced could think of to make the backswing work.

Then, essentially out of desperation, I decided to simplify: I had her start Out-of-Glove. No backswing. Fewer moving parts on an already complex motion. In our case, this helped tremendously. It took a couple of months for her to get completely comfortable with this starting position, but she’s never looked back. Perhaps for other reasons (e.g., hiding the ball), but have noticed that the OOG starting position is becoming more and more prevalent at the highest levels of women’s fastpitch.

 

[Sparky Guy]

Without see video and going off of your pictures this is what I'm seeing.

She is swimming and throwing her left arm out. This will keep her from getting fully open in time and throw off her arm circle path. Because she has experienced a large growth spurt nature has given her adult hips. I'm sure she's hit her arm more than a few times on her right hip so she's trying not to hit it. As a woman whose gone thru the same issues it may help her to hear you've endured the physical changes she is experiencing and there are things she can do/change that will allow her to work with her adult body.

Here are some of the things I've used with girls who've experienced the same thing.

To help with the arm swimming out. As she brings her glove hand up at the start of her motion tell her to turn her hand over and point her left little finger at her target. By doing that it forces the shoulder to move to the open position sooner. If she brings her glove up with the palm or thumb up it's easy for the shoulder to fly off to the left slowing her timing down getting to the fully open position.

She needs to change her thought process about getting open. Many girls think when they are going from the closed to the open position their body is swinging like a hinged door. The glove-side hip is taking a very long path to get fully into the open position. What you need to tell her is to think of her body as a rotating door. Her spine is the center of the door. Her body spins around her spine allowing her to get to the fully open position faster wth both hips moving at the same time. By doing that it gets her hips out of the way of her arm faster. There is a drill that helps with this. I call it the "Stork" drill. Don't do this on the pitching rubber. Do it on a flat surface. Have her stand in the closed position facing the catcher. Standing on her right leg, lift the left leg and bend the knee at about a 90 degree angle or close to that. Slowly lean forward slightly bringing the left leg back while keeping it bent to stay balanced. Bring both arms back with the leg. Once the leg is back far enough that she can keep her balance then have her swing and drive the left leg and arms up, not towards the catcher, at the same time. While dong that twist the body using the momentum from the leg and arms to turn the body and right foot 90 degrees while doing an arm circle. All the right foot does is turn 90 degrees. It does not move towards the catcher. She must stay balanced on the right leg without the left leg coming down until the ball gets to the catcher. Do it without a ball to start. Once the ball is introduced tell her to throw it and not worry about where it goes. After a while she will keep her weight back, be balanced and have her hips open. This is not a speed drill. It is a balance and timing drill.

For the arm path issue. Try the 3 circle drill. This is done without a ball first. Have her stand in the fully open position. Feet spread apart a little more than shoulder width. The left heel up slightly with the weight off of it. Knees slightly bent simulating the body position at the time the pitch is delivered. Point the left little finger at the target. Then have her do three continuous arm circles in a row. Each circle gets faster than the last. NO stopping or slowing down between circles. Count them out to her. Get slightly louder with each circle. As she does the circles there is a little bounce up and down with the body in time with the circle going up and down. She needs to be doing the circles fast enough to feel the tips of her fingers tingle. If she is not feeling the tingle she is not doing them fast enough. The tingle is the blood being forced to the tips of her fingers. Once she is doing the drill well enough for it to look seamless have her do the drill with her eyes closed. Let her feel her arm path and where her body is positioned. After she is doing the drill smoothly give her a ball. Tell her to throw the ball on the 3rd circle. Tell her you don't care where the ball goes. Just throw it at the end of the 3rd circle without slowing down.

I would start with the 3 circle drill and little finger. Then move to the Stork drill.

 

[princemakenzie]

Without see video and going off of your pictures this is what I'm seeing.

She is swimming and throwing her left arm out. This will keep her from getting fully open in time and throw off her arm circle path. Because she has experienced a large growth spurt nature has given her adult hips. I'm sure she's hit her arm more than a few times on her right hip so she's trying not to hit it. As a woman whose gone thru the same issues it may help her to hear you've endured the physical changes she is experiencing and there are things she can do/change that will allow her to work with her adult body.

Here are some of the things I've used with girls who've experienced the same thing.

To help with the arm swimming out. As she brings her glove hand up at the start of her motion tell her to turn her hand over and point her left little finger at her target. By doing that it forces the shoulder to move to the open position sooner. If she brings her glove up with the palm or thumb up it's easy for the shoulder to fly off to the left slowing her timing down getting to the fully open position.

She needs to change her thought process about getting open. Many girls think when they are going from the closed to the open position their body is swinging like a hinged door. The glove-side hip is taking a very long path to get fully into the open position. What you need to tell her is to think of her body as a rotating door. Her spine is the center of the door. Her body spins around her spine allowing her to get to the fully open position faster wth both hips moving at the same time. By doing that it gets her hips out of the way of her arm faster. There is a drill that helps with this. I call it the "Stork" drill. Don't do this on the pitching rubber. Do it on a flat surface. Have her stand in the closed position facing the catcher. Standing on her right leg, lift the left leg and bend the knee at about a 90 degree angle or close to that. Slowly lean forward slightly bringing the left leg back while keeping it bent to stay balanced. Bring both arms back with the leg. Once the leg is back far enough that she can keep her balance then have her swing and drive the left leg and arms up, not towards the catcher, at the same time. While dong that twist the body using the momentum from the leg and arms to turn the body and right foot 90 degrees while doing an arm circle. All the right foot does is turn 90 degrees. It does not move towards the catcher. She must stay balanced on the right leg without the left leg coming down until the ball gets to the catcher. Do it without a ball to start. Once the ball is introduced tell her to throw it and not worry about where it goes. After a while she will keep her weight back, be balanced and have her hips open. This is not a speed drill. It is a balance and timing drill.

For the arm path issue. Try the 3 circle drill. This is done without a ball first. Have her stand in the fully open position. Feet spread apart a little more than shoulder width. The left heel up slightly with the weight off of it. Knees slightly bent simulating the body position at the time the pitch is delivered. Point the left little finger at the target. Then have her do three continuous arm circles in a row. Each circle gets faster than the last. NO stopping or slowing down between circles. Count them out to her. Get slightly louder with each circle. As she does the circles there is a little bounce up and down with the body in time with the circle going up and down. She needs to be doing the circles fast enough to feel the tips of her fingers tingle. If she is not feeling the tingle she is not doing them fast enough. The tingle is the blood being forced to the tips of her fingers. Once she is doing the drill well enough for it to look seamless have her do the drill with her eyes closed. Let her feel her arm path and where her body is positioned. After she is doing the drill smoothly give her a ball. Tell her to throw the ball on the 3rd circle. Tell her you don't care where the ball goes. Just throw it at the end of the 3rd circle without slowing down.

I would start with the 3 circle drill and little finger. Then move to the Stork drill.

I actually have her do that 3 circle drill almost every time as a warm up. We do it standing or on her knee. And yes as quick as possible. But that is a go to one because she does it pretty well too. I will look into the other drills! Definitely think she could keep more weight back. she is a little on her toe. Usually stays back pretty well though. I know it’s something with that glove hand and just her mindset is a huge thing. But yes I will try those thank you!

 

[ArmWhip]

I would be very careful not to overload her with internal cues, glove hand does this, throwing arm does that, shoulders, hips etc.,especially if she is getting frustrated with the lack of progress. I agree that coming out of the glove may help and is the first thing to try. If that doesn't help then I would change approaches.

Athletes that have the movement basics already in place often respond better to external cues when it comes to making adjustments. Internal cues focus on the body (feel), external cues focus on something in the environment. I notice that you talk a lot about her 'arm circle', any verbal cues using that term would be internal. Looking at the pictures I would direct her attention to her ball circle (vs arm circle). Ask her what the ball is doing from start to finish and have her make some pitches. Hopefully she will 'get' that her ball circle is out of whack, that it starts too far out and then goes back over her head. Then tell her that her ball circle should be like a Ferris Wheel that is in line with the batter. Go slow, let her experiment and figure it out on her own. Give her feedback but try to stay away from any internal cues involving her body movement or feel.
BTW, I like the pool noodle idea in frame 5, it looks like it might have helped in that instance, did it carry over or result in any permanent change?

 

[princemakenzie]

I would be very careful not to overload her with internal cues, glove hand does this, throwing arm does that, shoulders, hips etc.,especially if she is getting frustrated with the lack of progress. I agree that coming out of the glove may help and is the first thing to try. If that doesn't help then I would change approaches.

Athletes that have the movement basics already in place often respond better to external cues when it comes to making adjustments. Internal cues focus on the body (feel), external cues focus on something in the environment. I notice that you talk a lot about her 'arm circle', any verbal cues using that term would be internal. Looking at the pictures I would direct her attention to her ball circle (vs arm circle). Ask her what the ball is doing from start to finish and have her make some pitches. Hopefully she will 'get' that her ball circle is out of whack, that it starts too far out and then goes back over her head. Then tell her that her ball circle should be like a Ferris Wheel that is in line with the batter. Go slow, let her experiment and figure it out on her own. Give her feedback but try to stay away from any internal cues involving her body movement or feel.
BTW, I like the pool noodle idea in frame 5, it looks like it might have helped in that instance, did it carry over or result in any permanent change?

It definitely helped! She made a lot of progress in that one lesson. She even said she felt a difference. But when we take it away it kind of goes back. We did it for awhile then kinda reached a point that was like “is this actually helping or just wasting time” cause she looks better with it but without she kinda looked like a different pitcher. Overtime it did help for sure. At least in letting her feel what she was doing for sure

 

[Fluid Fastpitch]

As far as ball circle, I've found it helpful to put a yardstick on the ground as a 'powerline just for the ball'. Similar philosophy - makes it an external cue rather than thinking about arm path.

 

[uncdrew]

As mentioned above, it looks like the backswing is the culprit. It starts bad and everything after that is simply her body trying to correct it. Wanna try something outside of the box? What about having her pitch some out of the glove. That would eliminate the backswing, where everything starts to go bad and is the root cause, and help her feel the proper circle. Wouldn't have to stay coming out of the glove, unless she likes it. Could slowly go back to a backswing once she starts to feel a proper circle shape.

Nice suggestion.

I was going to suggest she changes to do her backswing with the ball facing the catcher, not the back of her hand facing the catcher.

My daughter is taught to have the ball face the catcher. I'm not saying that's the right way, only that it's one right way. And that big a change may let her "start over" and have that backswing closer to the body.

Just a thought. Might be worth 5 minutes of exploration.

 

[abbygale]

Cup the ball. Arm to catcher and then body to arm.

A relaxed arm needs to go to target with other motions supporting it. You can remove the cup after she gets the arm circle working better.