Struggling with IR - Return to HE?

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Apr 1, 2021
23
3
DD is 13 and has been pitching 4 years. Her original PC was an oldschool guy whose DD pitched in the SEC several years ago. Needless to say he knew nothing about IR, but my DD thrived under him for a couple of years. However she reached a point where it seemed he had taken her as far as he could so we decided a change was in order and found a reputable coach who taught IR. Obviously it's a big change going to IR and takes some time, but DD significantly regressed over that next year and had a hard time understanding the coaches' instruction...seems it just wasn't a good fit.

At the beginning of '22 we decided it was time for a change and found another PC who DD connected with right away. She made great strides within a month, but then suffered a stress fracture in her arm which was possibly the result of repetitive banging against the hip on her "brush". She's 1.5 months removed from being cleared and has understandably had struggles getting back to pre-injury form. Recently her PC has been trying to correct her circle as she seems to be short-arming her delivery and forcing the rollover at release creating a 10-4 spin. The PC now has her facing the ball at the top towards 2B as opposed to home. This runs contrary to what I've read on IR, but PC says it is necessary to help extend the arm circle and have the hand pointing towards home at release to create something closer to 12-6 spin.

We really like and trust the PC, but wanted to get others' thoughts on this change as it seemed to possibly be the first step in returning to the HE method...and I know how most on here feel about that versus IR.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,166
113
Florida
Slow motion video shows literally no high level pitcher using HE - even if they think or say they are.

6 weeks in nothing in terms of learning a new motion or re-learning after recovering from an injury

I don't think ball to 2B is right but would have to see what the PC is trying to do. It may just be an exaggeration to correct something else.

IMO, you never go back to HE, but it you need to find a another PC then so be it. But it feels way early to me.
 
Last edited:
May 17, 2012
2,556
113
the first step in returning to the HE method...and I know how most on here feel about that versus IR.

It's not like she is struggling to hit left-handed so you are moving her back to right-handed. Those are both legitimate ways to hit.

You can't compare IR vs HE as they are not equal/opposing ways to pitch.

HE is not a legitimate way to pitch after 12u. Keep switching pitches coaches....
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,573
113
When my dd's pitching coach passed away, I got some of Bill Hillhouse's videos and went from there. It worked out well for us. You might need to make some of her practices "fun" in ways that help her. For example, when my daughter had the ball get to the hip, she would yell, "Hey" which was followed by "you" with her finger tips pointed at the catcher before they came to her left shoulder. (She is right-handed.) She would laugh doing that but the end result was that she mastered the motion.
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,677
113
Pac NW
As already mentioned, HE isn’t actually a way to pitch, but misinformed instruction. No pitcher, at any age with any level of success uses HE. Stick with the goal and she will benefit. Work for a loose, whippy forearm with good posture and brush. Let whip happen. Don’t make it happen. Give up any effort for control and you’ll find that laser beam accuracy is a byproduct.
 
Apr 1, 2021
23
3
Let whip happen. Don’t make it happen. Give up any effort for control and you’ll find that laser beam accuracy is a byproduct.
Appreciate everyone's responses, but this one I think will really sink in with my DD. One day she was struggling to throw anything near the plate while practicing before a private tryout that evening, but when the moment came she somehow let everything go and was loose. She wound up hitting spots like never before and with more velocity to boot. Unfortunately the injury happened shortly thereafter and here we are again, but that's life. We'll keep working to get back to where she was and then elevate beyond that.
 
Jan 22, 2011
1,250
83
Do you have some video of her pitching "I/R"? Those at the top of the game in pitching coaching are constantly trying to the improve the way they teach. Bill Hillhouse is a good starting place. He doesn't emphasize brush, but if you do what he teaches you naturally will get some light brush. It's more brush triggering than brush interference. My DD became a reasonably good pitcher from my mostly understanding Bill's material, but it didn't fully click to I went to a clinic given by Rick Pauly and my DD started working with Rich Balswick. She went to a great clinic that Ken B hosted that Mike Muhleisen gave as well.

When I work with pitchers I emphasis to them and their parents if anything I am teaching causes pain or discomfort, let me know because I am probably not explaining something correctly. "I/R" is the way the body moves naturally, so there shouldn't be any discomfort.

Explaination of difference betwen "HE" and "I/R"

Boardmember, who posted good resources on the "I/R In the Classroom" thread said brush shouldn't necessarily be taught but should results as part of good instruction. https://www.discussfastpitch.com/threads/i-r-in-the-classroom.10321/

Take a look at some of Amanda Scarborough's material at https://www.pitching-angel.com/

Look at www.paulygirlfastpitch.com. When the website is back up, look at https://www.fastpitchfoundations.com/


An e-book version of "I/R In the Classroom", and a video of some of the drills:

 
Last edited:

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
6,943
113
Dallas, Texas
This is the craziest thing I've read in a while. T
Recently her PC has been trying to correct her circle as she seems to be short-arming her delivery and forcing the rollover at release creating a 10-4 spin.

a) What does "forcing the rollover at release" mean?
b) What does "short-arming her delivery" mean?
c) Who cares if it is 10-4 spin instead of 12-6? It doesn't matter...a large portion of the top pitchers throw bullet spin.

Perfect spin matters when she wants to throw a drop or rise, *NOT* on the average, ordinary fastball.

PC says it is necessary to help extend the arm circle and have the hand pointing towards home at release to create something closer to 12-6 spin.
Huh??? "Extend the arm circle?" What does that mean?

Take a video of her from 2B and post it. We can tell you in 30 seconds if there is a problem with her arm circle.
We really like and trust the PC, but wanted to get others' thoughts on this change as it seemed to possibly be the first step in returning to the HE method...and I know how most on here feel about that versus IR.
I have two aunts (both in their late 90s) who are the nicest, most trustworthy people on the planet. They don't know anything about softball pitching--which appears to be similar to your PC.

The PC doesn't know what he/she is doing. He is selling you a load of crock.

I can post 100 pictures of the top pitchers with the ball facing home at 12. The man is Adam Folkard, who was *THE* best pitcher in the world. The women are Odicci Alexander, Montana Fouts and Cat Osterman.

folkard-12.JPG




ball-at-12.jpg
 

Attachments

  • folkard-12.JPG
    folkard-12.JPG
    15.5 KB · Views: 19
Jan 22, 2011
1,250
83
In no way should the "brush" be such that causes an arm fracture.

I'm huge on Tincher pitching, but that's just one of many teachers/orgs you can go with. Easy to look up Tincher pitching instructors in your area. In Atlanta, two of the best train some of the best young female pitchers in our state.

I follow other pitching coaches as my experts, but from what I've seen of what Tincher teaches, I agree with everything I've seen. I just got my hands on what Austin Wasserman (www.highlevelthrowing.com) is teaching as part of this high-level pitching program, and it's what Tincher teaches and includes some on-line interactive training from a Tincher trained pitching coach.
 

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
41,039
Messages
641,744
Members
20,046
Latest member
VJM1163
Top