How many pitchers is too many?

[MNDad]

No team needs more than 4.

DDs team, who was one of the better 18U teams in the country ( top 5 Colorado PP, 3rd place tcs nationals championship bracket, 3rd place PGF premier finish ) had 3 pitchers, and a guest for Pgf. I have to say, the guest for pgf was a blessing, but I would be surprised to see 4 top flight pitchers on the same team.

If you are #1, or #2, great. Plenty of innings to go around, and the hot hand gets the nod. Fair and no issue there. Being the #3 is tough, especially if you are good. Can’t imagine a good pitcher willing to be #4.

2 is not enough, 3 is about right, if you have #4 and they can contribute, then you are in a very good place.


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DD went to an 18U team of similar caliber as yours as the #4 pitcher. All four went D1 to P5 schools so their was no shame in being #4. She had a fantastic time and still got loads of innings because they went so deep in all the tourneys they played.

 

[radness]

Can remember a conversation with a pitcher who played at UCLA while Lisa Fernandez was in her dominance of pitching/playing.

Her name is Stephanie Swenson Brown. People may remember her from UCLA and as well being the pitching coach at Cal State Long Beach for many years.

When we talked about college Years~
She said to me
Everybody has a role on the team. She didn't mind knowing she was not the, so to speak, number #1 pitcher on their roster. She said what she did do was be asked to throw a lot of Bullpen and live pitching to her teammates. She was asked to throw specific pitches and locations to prepare the team for their oncoming rivals.
She told me she knows that she contributed to UCLA success in the years she was there and never felt less important, because she knows her role tremendously helped support the players that were on the field.

She commented the games that she was asked to get on the field and throw for her team she felt were a privilege. And she knew that she played more than just the role in the circle. She knew she was a teammate whenever the team needed her.

Have ultimate respect for the camaraderie of teammates who step up and stay dedicated to our teams!

Here's to you Coach Stephanie!

~Turbo

 

[_MIA_]

In tournament play, 3 that can get hitters out at the level you aspire to play is a must. Everybody has a bad game and you don't want to have to use the next game's potential starter in relief. I would say 5 that all want a decent amount of circle time is probably too much even for teams that go deep in bracket play.

 

[uncdrew]

How many is too many I think 4 is a good answer.

The odds of #4 getting any quality circle time is ZERO there just simply are not enough innings to go around; if you are treating #1, #2 and #3 right.

The #1 pitcher expects and should earn 50% of the time otherwise they are not really #1 are they. This means most all bracket games unless there are extenuating circumstances. #2 should get a pool game and maybe a half maybe and pitch when #1 struggles or is hurt; but #1 needs a pool game at least too so she can stay sharp. #3 Gets mop up duties when ahead or behind and maybe a pool game or half a pool game or two.

P.S. this assumes 3 quality pitcher and not a project pitcher or two

Most all bracket games? Not sure what tournaments you play but this would result in her arm falling off in the tournaments we play in.



[EDIT]. I see this post I replied to is from 2016. Perhaps their tournaments back then weren't as insanely long as the ones we play today.

We carry 4 pitchers and all get reps. We absolutely need 3, and the 4th does come in handy. I've always thought the right answer to this question is 3.5

 

[Cougars]

In tournament play, 3 that can get hitters out at the level you aspire to play is a must

This is probably true with the higher level teams (A and national type teams).

However, based on what i have seen in typical “B” teams, almost none of them have 3 that are “interchangable”. I’d say a 1 and 2, or maybe 1a and 1b, but by 3rd pitcher, there is a noticeable drop.

We played in a large usssa B tourney to end our summer. Just went back and looked at the results. The team that won it has their stats visible on gamechanger. They played 11 games that week. Pitcher 1 had 41 innings. Pitcher 2 had 21. No pitcher 3. For the entire summer, their #3 had 3 innings

The runner up has stats blocked, but quick glance of box scores looks like 2 pitchers, with a 3rd in blowouts.

 

[uncdrew]

This is probably true with the higher level teams (A and national type teams).

However, based on what i have seen in typical “B” teams, almost none of them have 3 that are “interchangable”. I’d say a 1 and 2, or maybe 1a and 1b, but by 3rd pitcher, there is a noticeable drop.

We played in a large usssa B tourney to end our summer. Just went back and looked at the results. The team that won it has their stats visible on gamechanger. They played 11 games that week. Pitcher 1 had 41 innings. Pitcher 2 had 21. No pitcher 3. For the entire summer, their #3 had 3 innings

The runner up has stats blocked, but quick glance of box scores looks like 2 pitchers, with a 3rd in blowouts.

Having a DD who pitches who did years of B and now a bit of A, I think you're both exactly right.

In B, you kind of knew which game your #2 (or even 3) pitcher could probably win, and which to save your #1 for. And you could win tournaments with just a #1 and a lesser #2.

In A, almost every bracket game needs a top pitcher, as every A team has several and is pitching a stud in almost every bracket game. To compete, you need a stud too.

 

[radness]

Having a DD who pitches who did years of B and now a bit of A, I think you're both exactly right.

In B, you kind of knew which game your #2 (or even 3) pitcher could probably win, and which to save your #1 for. And you could win tournaments with just a #1 and a lesser #2.

In A, almost every bracket game needs a top pitcher, as every A team has several and is pitching a stud in almost every bracket game. To compete, you need a stud too.

Like how the comments have developed.

To add to this if playing in B type competition and already know the #3 pitcher could probably win,
it's time to play better competition.

 

[_MIA_]

We played in a large usssa B tourney to end our summer. Just went back and looked at the results. The team that won it has their stats visible on gamechanger. They played 11 games that week. Pitcher 1 had 41 innings. Pitcher 2 had 21. No pitcher 3.

Did pitcher 1’s arm fall off afterwards because that is probably 500 to 700 pitches for the weekend..B pitchers get worn out too regardless of whether you are able to win that way..

 

[uncdrew]

Did pitcher 1’s arm fall off afterwards because that is probably 500 to 700 pitches for the weekend..B pitchers get worn out too regardless of whether you are able to win that way..

41 innings, 15 pitches per inning... 615 pitches.

Yeah, that's more than I'd want a pitcher to throw in a weekend.

 

[_MIA_]

@Cougars how many of those 41 innings were from her coming in to relieve the number 2 pitcher??

If you are a coach that doesn't have 2 pitchers who can start and beat anybody you plan on playing and a third who can come in relief and give you a good 2 or 3 innings, you shouldn't expect to win tournaments (especially bigger ones where even staying in the winners bracket all the way through requires you to play 5 or 6 bracket games) and still be able to safely use your pitchers...I don't care what the level is. Unfortunately I know what most coaches around here choose when presented with that scenario..

Last year we had 2 two kids who could win bracket games and a third who, well, couldn't. DD's coach still used the third pitcher and we became very familiar with the loser's bracket. The situation should be a bit better this year..hopefully.