Fastball frenzy or not?

[sutherlandfinch]

While the rest of the post was good Snuff, I'd like to focus in on the highlight above.........

With this in mind........Does anyone here REALLY BELIEVE that pitchers should NEVER throw fastball and coaches should NEVER call them?

Bases full, 3-0 count, 7 hitter up who's 0 for 2 at the plate........I know.......Lets throw a lower percentage pitch that moves, down, or up, or sideways!............Really?

7-0 we're ahead. No one on........8 hitter up.........I know! Lets throw Drop/Screw/Rise/Change/Curve! And over pitch the hell out of the situation.........

How many times have you accidently WALKED the 3 worst hitters on the team because you OVER PITCHED to them and put the pitcher in a hole right from the get go..........

Common people........While it sounds glittery to say great pitchers never throw fastball.........It's NOT reality.........

Great point! #1 pet peeve is 0-2 hits. # 2 is 0-2 turning into 3-2. Sometimes a well placed UNEXPECTED fastball can disrupt a hitter's timing as well as anything especially later in the game if a coach has cut the zone in half batters are looking to drive a specific pitch. They also can be a great table setter for a good movement/off speed pitch for the K.

But most of all (especially @ the younger ages) being able to refer back to fastball mechanics in games can be beneficial to kids still learning to throw movement pitches successively. How many times have you seen a pitcher cruising along fine and then a wheel falls off the cart? Getting back to base mechanics still has it's place.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

However, the problem I have with my pitchers throwing one is that it doesn't change planes, therefore is predictable in it's flight path. Thus, even an average batter can make contact if they have good bat/hand speed.

Also, a very good batter/excellent will make you pay for that fast ball more often than not. Why not make it harder for them to hit the ball square by having it change planes?

Just my 2 cents.

I've not come across any pitcher who has a fastball 4-5 mph faster then her drop/rise/curve/screw.

When you find a pitcher that has a pitch that's 4-5mph faster then anything else in her arsenal. . . where the rest of her arsenal is at an average to good speed for her age group, then you will have found a pitcher who has the potential to use a successful fastball. Until then, we're stuck with the "Fastball" being the pitch that the coach thinks the kid can throw for a strike and nothing more.

Very good points.

Let's take the rise ball FP. Most of the time the "rise" is thrown very hard, it has to be to deal with gravity. But essentially it's just a FB ( doesn't matter how you grip it ), in BB we call that "the high hard one". I've never seen a rise jump up to the sky, what I have seen is some continue to move in an upward motion due to the speed and "angle" of the pitch.

Covering Star's last quote:
That's what I'm implying. Changing the way we look at the game. Or at least offer a new option to keep batters on their toes. That's why I stated I ( we PC's ) would have to approach this with a younger prodigy and advance from there.

Ask yourself this, how would MLB be if all the pitches were thrown the same speed? Do you think they would have "much" trouble adjusting to movement if they didn't have to worry with that one "flat" pitch that's coming 10+ MPH faster at any time. At 90 MPH BB or 60 MPH FP the batter has roughly .45 seconds to react.

Let's take last night, Motte comes in. Everyone in the dugout, 40,000 fans, millions watching from home all know he will throw 95% fastballs. But in the back if the batters mind there is a small chance he will go off speed. Just enough confusion in the mind where it's hard to make successful contact with his FB.

Thats what I'm stressing with FP. If we took that similar approach and lowered breaking speed to maximize movement and had a nasty FB 6+ MPH to throw in the mix I think that would be deadly to a batters mindset and rhythm.

 

[David Carter]

While I agree you can over think and not pitching STRIKES in your (Boardmember) scenario is silly, some other posters are saying at a certain level pitchers can consistently throw their curve or peel or whatever their "go to" pitch is for a strike.

I am also not sure exactly what the pitchers might be doing... they could be throwing their "get it over" screw, drop or peel pitch just a little differently than their "I am in a battle a really need to make a great pitch" screw, drop or peel.

 

[CoachFP]

First of all, I am not sure what the general term "fastball" means. As in what spin will it have? I have seen college girls say they throw one and the spin is crazy and I am not sure how the ball is coming off of their hands. I am sure people who are hanging around 12U and 14U ball all the time are ok with this kind of spin but I digress. If the hand is not directly behind the ball on release the pitch will not be the fastest someone can throw. That's why a true peel drop is the fastest pitch one can generally throw. The riseball is slower because the hand and fingers are turning the ball and are not behind it fully. If the "fastball" has true down spin and it is thrown not to move that would make no sense to me. If it has cockeyed spin then that would introduce hand movement that is counter productive. Now if someone can't make the ball move and that is their fastball it can still be an effective pitch if thrown to good spots with good speed and an offspeed pitch to go along with it. I don't care what level you are playing, location is more important than movement. And I have said this many times before the toughest pitch to hit in softball is a "ball" and good pitchers have a knack of keeping the ball on the edges and ultimately out of the strike zone.

 

[BoardMember]

Good stuff Dave. And very true in most cases. However.......Lets say your "go to pitch" is drop or curve.......Or even screw. And as you suggest when behind in the count or in a tough run potential situation, or facing a lower level hitter, you're trying to throw that "less curvey", or less "screwy" or "less droppy" pitch, I can see a number of potential problems. One........Because you're "aiming or guiding" that pitch, and trying to put less "spinnage" and possibly less velocity to "control it" on these pitches, what are the chances of your timing or wrist/finger articulation causes a bad pitch? Also, if you do have an "out pitch" that is not fastball........What's the differencee between "sitting on a fastball" vs. sitting on a screwball, especially a less "spinny" and possibly slower one, if that is your "go to" pitch.

Most hitters have holes.......Example.......Veronica Nelson had a huge hole inside.......Get it anywhere outside the inside corner and you could "forgetaboutit..............So I've pitched around her, and I'm behind in the count. So do I throw her inside screw with the potential of missing inside or out over the plate? Or do I POUND her under the hands with low fastball, where if she did touch it, it stays in the ball park........

Just sayin........Fastball are UNDER RATED on this board IMO..........

First of all, I am not sure what the general term "fastball" means. As in what spin will it have? I have seen college girls say they throw one and the spin is crazy and I am not sure how the ball is coming off of their hands. I am sure people who are hanging around 12U and 14U ball all the time are ok with this kind of spin but I digress. If the hand is not directly behind the ball on release the pitch will not be the fastest someone can throw. That's why a true peel drop is the fastest pitch one can generally throw. The riseball is slower because the hand and fingers are turning the ball and are not behind it fully. If the "fastball" has true down spin and it is thrown not to move that would make no sense to me. If it has cockeyed spin then that would introduce hand movement that is counter productive. Now if someone can't make the ball move and that is their fastball it can still be an effective pitch if thrown to good spots with good speed and an offspeed pitch to go along with it. I don't care what level you are playing, location is more important than movement. And I have said this many times before the toughest pitch to hit in softball is a "ball" and good pitchers have a knack of keeping the ball on the edges and ultimately out of the strike zone.

 

[starsnuffer]

Heh, count the strikes:

She establishes that she can paint the corners at will (granted they are generous corners) and then proceeds to put the ball anywhere but the strike zone. Count the fastballs thrown here:



-W

 

[starsnuffer]

Here's another one:



My point is, the best pitchers are the ones that can establish the strike zone by just barely hitting it with movement pitchers, and then rarely have to go back inside the strike zone to beat batters. If that is what the best in the world are doing, then why do we, as coaches, tell them anything different?

-W

 

[BoardMember]

Gotta admit, If I'm facing a team swinging at EVERYTHING IN OR WAY outta the zone.........I can pretty much throw what ever the hell I want........

 

[blazerdad]

It depends. If my pitcher is throwing the ball so hard that the batters can't catch up to it, then I'm throwing it. Probably more common the younger the age group. If the batter can hit the FB, I still might throw a FB but only as a change of pace - outside the zone to setup the next pitch. And that assume her FB has above average velocity. I can't believe most age groups can't find a time to throw a good FB at some point.

 

[JAD]

My DD still throws fastballs......not as many as she did at younger ages, but she still throws them. Her FB has a little bit of a screwball 'tail' on it, so it is still difficult for batters to hit the ball in the 'sweet spot'.