Defining when the umpire crosses the umpiring line

[radness]

In the catching forum a post was made regarding its helpful and important feedback for the catcher to bring feedback to their team of what the umpires strikezone area looks like. *this is the catchers observations for their team!

@EdLovrich replied by commenting
The umpire may have feedback they tell the catcher, 'given by the umpire to give to their team'

*Brings up the question
Where is the umpiring conversation line drawn on talking to the catcher?
Or players for that matter?

Here is a copy of posts to start off discussion.

 

[radness]

Will start imo drawing the line.

1. Absolutely think its crossing the umpiring line to talk to the catcher about the pitchers mechanics. (like drag foot or any mechanics at all)

*if there is an illegal pitching rule thing happening.
That should be addressed by the umpire, in the open with the pitcher, usually brings the coach in on that.
*the umpire should explain for themself whatever issue they are seeing.

Definetly Not a whisper to the catcher!
That can cause an array of issues!!!
The catcher is Not the liaison interpretor for the umpire.
Nor is the umpire the pitching instructor.
Certainly can create misinterpretations...
(Like the old telephone game)

 

[Rolling Hard]

Appropriate communication between ump and catcher:

"Good morning, how you doing?"
and
" Five pitches then coming down"
and
"Nice throw."

All other communications should go thru HC, IMO.

 

[EdLovrich]

@RADcatcher As I said in the other post about this topic. This part of the communication is level-dependent. If a varsity C can't deliver a message of "Remind her to keep her foot down" and if the P doesn't understand what I mean by that, then we have bigger problem than can be fixed by preventive umpiring.

One of the reasons for using the C to deliver the message rather than going out to the P, which, as you pointed out would get the HC involved, if precisely to avoid that happening. If HC A comes out, then HC B wants to know why or is bright enough to figure out regrdless depending on how 'close' a foot drag/leap was to an actual violation. Then HC B wonders why I didn't just call it (I didn't because I am not 100% sure it happened yet) or will wonder why his P didn't get a warning when she elevates 6 inches on a pitch later in the game and I call it right away.

The catcher is Not the liaison interpretor for the umpire.

No, she isn't. And if message iss so complicated it might be misinterpreted,, then I think we have gone past umpiring to coaching. It is the difference between "Remind her to drag her foot" and a full-on how-to lesson. Like I said in the other post, this happens more in baseball and a no-stop balk call. I used it more as an example, because really, a leap is going to be seen by the base umpire MUCH more easily.

 

[radness]

As I said in the other post about this topic. This part of the communication is level-dependent. If a varsity C can't deliver a message of "Remind her to keep her foot down" and if the P doesn't understand what I mean by that, then we have bigger problem than can be fixed by preventive umpiring.

One of the reasons for using the C to deliver the message rather than going out to the P, which, as you pointed out would get the HC involved, if precisely to avoid that happening. If HC A comes out, then HC B wants to know why or is bright enough to figure out regrdless depending on how 'close' a foot drag/leap was to an actual violation. Then HC B wonders why I didn't just call it (I didn't because I am not 100% sure it happened yet) or will wonder why his P didn't get a warning when she elevates 6 inches on a pitch later in the game and I call it right away.



No, she isn't. And if message iss so complicated it might be misinterpreted,, then I think we have gone past umpiring to coaching. It is the difference between "Remind her to drag her foot" and a full-on how-to lesson. Like I said in the other post, this happens more in baseball and a no-stop ball call. I used it more as an example, because really, a leap is going to be seen by the base umpire MUCH more easily.

Glad to read you added more discussion points!

 

[mmeece]

Will start imo drawing the line.

1. Absolutely think its crossing the umpiring line to talk to the catcher about the pitchers mechanics. (like drag foot or any mechanics at all)

*if there is an illegal pitching rule thing happening.
That should be addressed by the umpire, in the open with the pitcher, usually brings the coach in on that.
*the umpire should explain for themself whatever issue they are seeing.

Definetly Not a whisper to the catcher!
That can cause an array of issues!!!
The catcher is Not the liaison interpretor for the umpire.
Nor is the umpire the pitching instructor.
Certainly can create misinterpretations...
(Like the old telephone game)

Completely disagree. The catcher NEEDS to be a messenger to the coach or pitcher at times in order to avoid larger issues from developing. Just a simple reminder after warmups can sometimes avoid needing to call an illegal pitch and a huge can of worms later. Or, telling her to let the coach know where that pitch missed can avoid an argument that ends up getting a coach tossed later on. I teach my catchers that they absolutely need to be a liaison to/for the umpire.

 

[bmakj]

DD always has a dialogue going with umpires, introduces herself, will crack a joke or two, hey, it is supposed to be fun. and she also knows if ball caught umpire, without asking if he is OK, to walk the ball out, talk with pitcer for a moment, etc.

she will also communicate with coach (it was in river, it caught black, etc.), but not ay direction of blue, on her own.

 

[radness]

Appreciate strikezone area feedback!
_______________

However as to technical feedback about how the pitcher is pitching.
Would BE fantastic if pitchers/players accepted critical feedback from teammates.
Unfortunetly it can open a can of worms.
* Simply that can be avoided by the umpire reminding the pitcher themself inbetween innings.
Doesnt have to be in the middle of the inning or an at bat.
It is also the umpires job to apply the rules.
This can be better when pitchers KNOW umpires will approach them about guidelines. The umpire can explain why if theres a question in reply!

 

[radness]

Just more thoughts on it.

Here is another point about commenting on pitching mechanics. Especially 14U and above catchers are generally already aware of what the pitchers are doing and often the pitchers have been pitching this way with no other umpire having any comment about it at all! And quite possibly the catcher editing umpire comments and leaving that completely out of conversation would really help the pitcher (not get in her head) because it's just that umpire picking on something that no other umpire picks on.

Sometimes talk with the catcher will not have the outcome the Umpire might be looking for.
_______________

This scenario
If people saw the other teams pitcher doing something on the edge of illegal or illegal.
And umpire does nothing...visibly to address it.
People notice.
Start griping.

People see umpire talking to pitcher befor inning starts befor her 5 warm ups...
People notice.
It displays Umpire is on it.

 

[Bullseye]

What is preventive umpiring?