College rule about getting hit by pitch that is over the plate?

[The Man In Blue]

Now want to bring this up to the other dfp'ers and umpires. If you were the coach of Tennessee and you were thinking that Stanford's players are disrupting the strike zone area... what would be your approach (if any) to the umpires about the situation?

I would encourage a coach to talk to the umpire about it. Even if it is before the game. Sure, most umpires might blow you off, but I don't see anything wrong with, "Hey Blue, just so you know, they are prone to doing this."

There is nothing illegal about a batter setting up with body parts hanging over the plate. An umpire cannot tell a batter "don't do that." It's when the ball gets to that same spot that we have something, and the batter has to face the consequences of their choices.

It's an unfortunate situation for the offense because there's the disruption of what the Batters are doing that creates Umpire not being able to view the pitch all the way and get an accurate call on it. While at the same time the batter gets to stay in the Box to complete their at-bat ...
What you going to do?

I think your observation that the batter is also disrupting the umpire's FRAME is very astute. I noticed in that picture the umpire is set up almost over the top of the catcher, which is something we are typically taught to avoid (line of fire hazard). It could be he had to adjust.

I agree with @mmeece : benefit of the doubt is not going to the person making my life more difficult. If the batter is not giving me a view of the zone, the catcher is probably going to get the things I can't see. If the catcher is not FRAMING properly (no, not moving her glove, but giving me a frame to look through) and blocking me out, those borderline pitches are probably going to the batter.

 

[The Man In Blue]

feels like too much for an ump to keep track of and track a pitch. to me in that image it looks like she's within the outer edge of the lines, but don't really know how you'd tell it's so scuffed. Do all rulesets not include the lines as part of the box? There's a good couple inches between her toes and the plate though?

I mean, crowding the plate is fine as long as you're within the rules, it's not the batter's fault if the umpire misses that call.

That can be very difficult for the plate umpire to catch once the pitch is in process. In 3-person crews, I believe NCAA mechanics allow (require) the base umpires to watch for that.

As @Comp said, NCAA is the only one that does not count the lines as part of the box. The batter must be INSIDE the inside line. All others use the outside of the line for the batter's restrictions.

 

[CoachCeetar]

That can be very difficult for the plate umpire to catch once the pitch is in process. In 3-person crews, I believe NCAA mechanics allow (require) the base umpires to watch for that.

As @Comp said, NCAA is the only one that does not count the lines as part of the box. The batter must be INSIDE the inside line. All others use the outside of the line for the batter's restrictions.

Does that work? an umpire 60+ feet away is judging whether or not a batter's foot is minutely over/touching a line? I guess that makes sense though, the HPU just calls ball/strike based on the pitch, and the other ump rules if that call stands or is HBP based on the lines?

The drawback to that is that the umpire is then standing merely ~60 feet away and is focusing on the batter's positioning more than the ball that might coming screaming right at them off the bat.

 

[RADcatcher]

I would encourage a coach to talk to the umpire about it. Even if it is before the game. Sure, most umpires might blow you off, but I don't see anything wrong with, "Hey Blue, just so you know, they are prone to doing this."

And that could completely taint the rest of the game for some coaches and umpires decision making

I think your observation that the batter is also disrupting the umpire's FRAME is very astute. I noticed in that picture the umpire is set up almost over the top of the catcher, which is something we are typically taught to avoid (line of fire hazard). It could be he had to adjust.

Thank you. Being a catcher I know the view that I have. And I've had to consider while being a catcher in Games The View the Umpire may not have had. Even though we are in a very similar perspective it is still not the same.

I appreciate your perseverance towards accuracy with the rule book.
As you know it is difficult in the moment to be 100% accurate every time. That I think is probably the most influence in the game is somebody trying to understand what they just saw in a quick movement and make a call on it . But when it happens with the same batter again and again wonder do you as an Umpire see that action as purposeful? Would that draw your attention further?

 

[RADcatcher]

I highly disagree, and will tell coaches that. The pitcher should throw the pitcher's pitch. The batter doesn't take anything away . . . the pitcher gives it up.

If she is out over the plate, throw your pitch and let it hit her.

I'll call it correctly.

Ok, but not all umpires call it correctly. I understand why you disagree because your reflecting on your performance.

Your advice might not go over well with other umpires. As their decision making may not be the same as yours.

 

[Dabears17]

From 2024-2025 NCAA rulebook:
11.2.3 Any part of each foot in contact with the ground must be completely
within the lines of the batter’s box until the pitch is released.
EFFECT—If the umpire sees a line violation before the start of the pitch,
the umpire shall suspend play and direct the batter to get into the box. If
the batter fails to comply within 10 seconds, a strike is called. No pitch
has to be thrown. The ball is dead.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Maybe I am getting a bit fuzzy, or maybe the conversation is.

Feet in the batter's box and body parts over the plate are two different conversations. Yes, umpires should direct batters to be legal (feet in the box) pre-pitch. No, umpires should not direct batters to get their body parts out from over the plate and keep them in the batter's box.

Both base and plate umpires (NCAA) are able to make calls based on the batter's feet being out of the box (pre-pitch or on bat contact). Body parts over the plate are the plate umpire's call.

That I think is probably the most influence in the game is somebody trying to understand what they just saw in a quick movement and make a call on it . But when it happens with the same batter again and again wonder do you as an Umpire see that action as purposeful? Would that draw your attention further?

. . . and add to that the ability to properly explain, within the language of the book, what you saw.

I don't disagree with that "over and over" again philosophy. I can't speak for all umpires, but I think most would agree, there are times that we see something and don't register it right away. I have said before, when on the bases, I try to see an "illegal pitch" from multiple points of view before I will call it. So yes, the more we see something, odds are the more we will catch it. (Or, you can make the argument that we get desensitized and don't call it . . . looking at you illegal pitches.)

 

[Intheboondocks]

I think we need our updated chatgpt bot to solve this quandry

 

[Northball]

I think we need our updated chatgpt bot to solve this quandry

Not until we know if the bot's DDbot is a pitcher or a hitter.

 

[Intheboondocks]

Not until we know if the bot's DDbot is a pitcher or a hitter.

We all know it's always the pitchers bot parent, bunch of prima donna bots...