College DP / Flex Rule

[_MIA_]

I am truly baffled how some of the college coaches move players around.

That’s why they get paid the big bucks and why you have to pay to watch (ok maybe not but go with it..)

 

[CoachJD]

Fun story from earlier this season: We had a team try to bat 10 players. They didn't seem to understand that it's a DP and not an EP (is that a slow pitch thing?). They just had no idea that the 10th spot was defense only, and I suspect they'd been batting 10 all season and nobody called them on it.

I believe the penalty, when properly appealed (which I did), is an out and the Flex is restricted to the bench. We got the out. I didn't fight for the restriction to the bench. I was happy enough that the umpire knew 10 couldn't bat.

We've also had coaches claim we've batted out of order multiple times over the years when the Flex doesn't bat. Luckily the umps have always at the very least understood Flex = Defense, so it's never been an issue. Kind of crazy how many HS coaches don't even know the bare minimum about it though.

 

[Westwind]

Fun story from earlier this season: We had a team try to bat 10 players. They didn't seem to understand that it's a DP and not an EP (is that a slow pitch thing?). They just had no idea that the 10th spot was defense only, and I suspect they'd been batting 10 all season and nobody called them on it.

I believe the penalty, when properly appealed (which I did), is an out and the Flex is restricted to the bench. We got the out. I didn't fight for the restriction to the bench. I was happy enough that the umpire knew 10 couldn't bat.

We've also had coaches claim we've batted out of order multiple times over the years when the Flex doesn't bat. Luckily the umps have always at the very least understood Flex = Defense, so it's never been an issue. Kind of crazy how many HS coaches don't even know the bare minimum about it though.

Sometimes I wonder if some college coaches get away with buffalo-ing the umps!

 

[clarity]

Been holding off on saying anything until there was more clarification. Seems as if we aren't getting much.

Using the current '22-23 NCAA book:

8.1.2.4 Designated Player (DP). The player who is initially listed on the lineup card in the team’s batting order but not in the defensive lineup. (See Rule 8.2.)

8.1.2.6 Flex. The player who is initially listed in the 10th spot on the lineup card who may play any defensive position and may only enter the game on offense in the designated player’s spot in the batting order. (See Rule 8.2.)

8.1.2.7 Offense Player (OP). The player in the batting order who is not playing defense because the DP has entered to play defense.

Without going into the entire set of DP/Flex rules, everything you need is above.

The Flex can ONLY come in to bat in the spot listed for the DP. The Flex is a starting position and cannot sub in to another batting spot. The Flex can go play any place on the field and can come and go freely on defense only. Each change still has to be reported to the umpire. Even if the Flex goes to a different defensive position (that player is displaced and becomes the OP - offensive player), the Flex cannot bat in that player's batting spot.

Just one last clarification question on this for me, in light of @Westwind's comments above. What about the scenario where Flex 2 is subbed into the game for Flex 1. Flex 1 can only subsequently enter the game to hit in the same spot the DP was in, right? That is, subbing Flex 1 out of the game does not free her of the bond to the DP slot, correct? Thanks

 

[uncdrew]

Because at the time she hit she was no longer the flex.

They subbed her into the game. Because she started she gets one re-entry And all the defensive changes you want to make.

A pitcher that can hit and play another defensive position is prime for this kind of scheme.

What messes us up is we cant see all the substitutions. The first substitution probably happened at the plate meeting. Bahl probably started in the flex, got subbed to rf to hit, the right fielder gets subbed back in with her re-entry and then Bahl goes back to flex. There is also probably a “starter” listed on the lineup card that was never on the field.

I’m no rocket scientist and I have been trying to figure this out for 3 years. DD’s coach does this and the players sometimes wonder how a player can still be in hitting lineup. This is so complicated that a college coach that has been doing this for years gets herself in trouble with it a couple times per year.

I've given up trying to figure these things out. Unless a batter bats twice in a row, I figure they just made so many substitutions that they can get anyone into the lineup wherever they want to.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Just one last clarification question on this for me, in light of @Westwind's comments above. What about the scenario where Flex 2 is subbed into the game for Flex 1. Flex 1 can only subsequently enter the game to hit in the same spot the DP was in, right? That is, subbing Flex 1 out of the game does not free her of the bond to the DP slot, correct? Thanks

Correct. The Flex/DP spots (regardless of who is in them) were locked in place when the line up card was submitted at the plate meeting.

The batting line up does not care where the players go in the field on defense, but they can never bat in a different spot.

 

[SBmom8992]

Correct. The Flex/DP spots (regardless of who is in them) were locked in place when the line up card was submitted at the plate meeting.

The batting line up does not care where the players go in the field on defense, but they can never bat in a different spot.

Can you confirm this scenario? Starting pitcher hits for herself in the lineup. She comes out of the game in inning 4 but still hits. In this case should she be the DP and the new pitcher would have to have been listed as the flex on the lineup?

Is there a way for a player to continue to hit in a game where they are taken out on the defensive side?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Westwind]

I’m not aggressively defending my position here…. Because I can’t!

I see some things in college softball substitutions that seem to be unexplained phenomena!

 

[The Man In Blue]

Can you confirm this scenario? Starting pitcher hits for herself in the lineup. She comes out of the game in inning 4 but still hits. In this case should she be the DP and the new pitcher would have to have been listed as the flex on the lineup?

Is there a way for a player to continue to hit in a game where they are taken out on the defensive side?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For that to work, the coach would submit a line up with the DP/Flex listed.

For example:
#25, Sally, is my Flex and is pitching.
#99, Lucy is the DP and is batting.

As soon as the line up is submitted, the coach announces a change (at the plate meeting) that he is dropping the DP, so Sally will pitch and hit. It appears to the crowd that there was no DP/Flex, but there was.

In the 4th inning, the coach makes a change and reinstates the DP/Flex. He subs the new pitcher into the Flex and Sally goes to the DP. Sally leaves the game on defense, so it does count as a sub/re-entry for her.

Somebody double check me on that … I’m not 100% certain I did (said) that correctly.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

As TMiB states, the coach has to start with a DP/Flex lineup. To SBmom8992's question, the starting pitcher and her replacement do not have to be in the DP/Flex spots, although it's commonly done that way.