DH/Flex in Lineup

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Aug 10, 2016
686
63
Georgia
I do GC for DD's HS team. So I get the lineups. The last two games we've played - the other team has a DH in the lineup and then the P as flex.
I put everything in - the lineup gets announced.
We've only played home games so far so other team bats first.
Last night, the DH gets on - and they CR for their pitcher??
So when we come up to bat now the DH is the pitcher.

The same thing happened in another game where the DH ended up pitching instead of the one on the lineup.
Is this just the other team wanting the flex to be announced and then actually have their real pitcher play? I'm so confused on whether it's against the rules or not. I'm not on the field - but up in the scorebox - so I don't know if the other team is telling the ump the change.
It doesn't really matter but it's just confusing as to why they would knowingly put a different player in as "pitcher" and then not pitch them.
 
Oct 11, 2018
231
43
The DH can pitch and if the Flex is on the bench on defense, the DP has entered for the Flex and the Flex has left the game. However, if this was not announced befoire the DP batted, the DP should not have been allowed a CR.
 
Aug 10, 2016
686
63
Georgia
The DH can pitch and if the Flex is on the bench on defense, the DP has entered for the Flex and the Flex has left the game. However, if this was not announced befoire the DP batted, the DP should not have been allowed a CR.
It's just odd - if you know you're going to pitch a certain girl -why are you writing on the lineup - DH w/ a diff player pitching. Just mark her as the P to start.

The only time I've ever seen a lineup that immediately gets changed once the game starts is Senior night when you put your Seniors in the lineup (that don't normally start) - to get announced but then sub them for the players who are going to be playing. This scenario doesn't even apply as these are away games for these teams 🤷‍♀️
 

GIMNEPIWO

GIMNEPIWO
Dec 9, 2017
171
43
VA
I do GC for DD's HS team. So I get the lineups. The last two games we've played - the other team has a DH in the lineup and then the P as flex.
I put everything in - the lineup gets announced.
We've only played home games so far so other team bats first.
Last night, the DH gets on - and they CR for their pitcher??
So when we come up to bat now the DH is the pitcher.

The same thing happened in another game where the DH ended up pitching instead of the one on the lineup.
Is this just the other team wanting the flex to be announced and then actually have their real pitcher play? I'm so confused on whether it's against the rules or not. I'm not on the field - but up in the scorebox - so I don't know if the other team is telling the ump the change.
It doesn't really matter but it's just confusing as to why they would knowingly put a different player in as "pitcher" and then not pitch them.

First and foremost ... The terminology is "DP" not "DH" ... Different things and it should be listed on the line up cards and be announced at the home plate meeting that they are using the DP / Flex.

The player listed on the line up card as a pitcher (or catcher) in the top of the first inning is the pitcher or catcher. Afterwards the pitcher / catcher must face a batter on defense and then they are the person occupying that position.

Here in your scenario what is happening if they are doing it legally: DP (who is listed in one of the first 9 positions on the line up card) bats and gets on base. THEN, they put the FLEX (who is listed 10th) in for the DP, DP has left the game and may re-enter one time. Now the FLEX (pitcher) is replaced by a CR but still in the game. When you came up to bat, at some point they put the DP back in the game to play defense for the FLEX, now the FLEX has left the game and may re enter one time.

If I were you, I would tell the coach of your team to give you all the changes that they get by courier or yelling them to the press box. If your coach is not getting these changes, they should be.
 
Last edited:

GIMNEPIWO

GIMNEPIWO
Dec 9, 2017
171
43
VA
The DH can pitch and if the Flex is on the bench on defense, the DP has entered for the Flex and the Flex has left the game. However, if this was not announced befoire the DP batted, the DP should not have been allowed a CR.

Some incorrect info here. The DP should be listed as a batter in one of the first 9 positions and there is no need to announce her. The CR can not run for the DP unless the DP is F2 (which was not stated) and the OP said they CR'd for the pitcher, who was the FLEX ... So presumably the FLEX went in for the DP on offence and was given a CR (which does need to be announced).
 
Nov 18, 2015
1,585
113
1. I'm curious what the benefit is to the above scenario? If the P is the FLEX, are they subbing the FLEX for the DP just to get a CR? And burning a sub/re-entry in the process?
2. I'm only through 1 season of HS ball, but shouldn't the ump be signaling to the official scorekeeper these changes?
2a. Even if the ump is forgetting to include the scorekeeper, at least one or two of the above moves needs to be announced (i.e. reported to the umpire) - as an ump, I'd be a little miffed if I was spending already spending 5 minutes in the 1st inning marking up my lineup card.
 

GIMNEPIWO

GIMNEPIWO
Dec 9, 2017
171
43
VA
1. I'm curious what the benefit is to the above scenario? If the P is the FLEX, are they subbing the FLEX for the DP just to get a CR? And burning a sub/re-entry in the process?
2. I'm only through 1 season of HS ball, but shouldn't the ump be signaling to the official scorekeeper these changes?
2a. Even if the ump is forgetting to include the scorekeeper, at least one or two of the above moves needs to be announced (i.e. reported to the umpire) - as an ump, I'd be a little miffed if I was spending already spending 5 minutes in the 1st inning marking up my lineup card.

Well, I use the DP FLEX often, but not like this so I may not be qualified to give you an accurate answer but can hazard a guess or two by examining it.

And yes, ALL changes MUST go through the Umpire or they are unreported and there are consequences. The umpire should include the coach, and if not the coach should be demanding it. That said, MANY coaches (and some Umpires) don't understand the DP FLEX and wouldn't know legal from beagle.

Although in this case the FLEX was listed as F1, there appears to be no intention to use her that way ... She still has one re entry as the DP replaced her, so maybe she does pitch or play another position and will do so later in the game ... Or maybe she is injured and won't be able to actually take the field, but can still say she is a starter or hadn't ever missed a game in her career, Senior season ??? ... They did burn a re entry on the DP when the FLEX replaced her but she did have time to go throw a few warm up pitches, go to the bathroom, get a snack or wave to Grandma ??? The CR, well she is still available to use for the DP (now F1) since she is playing defense for the FLEX ... But had the DP not played defense for the FLEX (or F2 in another scenario) the CR could not have run for her. A CR can run for a pitcher or catcher, but the same CR can not run for both.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
The player listed on the line up card as a pitcher (or catcher) in the top of the first inning is the pitcher or catcher. Afterwards the pitcher / catcher must face a batter on defense and then they are the person occupying that position.

Here in your scenario what is happening if they are doing it legally: DP (who is listed in one of the first 9 positions on the line up card) bats and gets on base. THEN, they put the FLEX (who is listed 10th) in for the DP, DP has left the game and may re-enter one time. Now the FLEX (pitcher) is replaced by a CR but still in the game. When you came up to bat, at some point they put the DP back in the game to play defense for the FLEX, now the FLEX has left the game and may re enter one time.

Your first paragraph describes the rule correctly, but I don't think this is what happened.

I think a mistake was made because the umpire allowed a courtesy runner for the player listed on the lineup card as the DP. This would've been OK had she pitched, but since they were the visiting team, the pitcher was still the FLEX.

I think what happened is the coach told the umpire the DP would be pitching the first inning (which is legal), and the umpire allowed him to courtesy run for her (should not have since she wasn't listed as the starting pitcher AND had not come into the game to pitch).
 

GIMNEPIWO

GIMNEPIWO
Dec 9, 2017
171
43
VA
Your first paragraph describes the rule correctly, but I don't think this is what happened.

I think a mistake was made because the umpire allowed a courtesy runner for the player listed on the lineup card as the DP. This would've been OK had she pitched, but since they were the visiting team, the pitcher was still the FLEX.

I think what happened is the coach told the umpire the DP would be pitching the first inning (which is legal), and the umpire allowed him to courtesy run for her (should not have since she wasn't listed as the starting pitcher AND had not come into the game to pitch).

In that case, after the ball becomes live, you (the coach) request time, bring an illegal substitute to the attention of the Umpire ... The CR is out and restricted to the bench for the remainder of game.
 
Aug 10, 2016
686
63
Georgia
The actual pitcher listed on the lineup sheet never came in at all for our game last nite. The pitcher listed on the lineup sheet in another game did eventually come in and pitch. And the DP went back to just a normal DP. The original pitcher who had been listed as flex never hit.
I assume our coach is getting these changes told to her so if she's not worried, I'm not. But just an odd thing to do.
When I score TB games it's really rare to even see this and if you do, the listed flex pitcher actually pitches.
We used DP/flex a fair bit last year in HS but it was never the pitcher who flexed since they normally are also good hitters.
 

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