- Jan 1, 2023
- 156
- 28
They just mentioned Deal’s bullet spin curve.
I caught that too.They just mentioned Deal’s bullet spin curve.
I caught that too.
It got me thinking, we always talk about bullet spin here as a stabilizing force that will keep a bullet on a straighter trajectory, then we apply it to a softball. But a bullet doesn't have seams. Could the bullet spinning ball with its seams rotating in one direction combined with the drop from gravity actually provide an air imbalance causing it to veer toward one side?
You have to take a deeper look to understand these things. Bullet spin by definition is always oriented in the direction the bullet is traveling, and will keep it on track as long as this remains true. Rather than a bullet use a football. The ball will travel straight as long as the nose remains pointed in the direction of travel. So when the ball passes the top of it's arc and begins to travel downward the axis of spin has to change and point downward into the changing direction of travel, or the bullet spin effect is lost. If the axis of spin remains pointed in the direction that it had when the ball was launched (slightly upward) then as the ball crests and begins to fall more air will hit the bottom of the spinning ball and the Magnus force will begin to have an effect, the ball will curve in the direction of the spin. This is how a 'bullet spin' slider breaks horizontally, with more of the break happening at the end of it's flight as the trajectory turns downward, but the axis of spin remains constant.It got me thinking, we always talk about bullet spin here as a stabilizing force that will keep a bullet on a straighter trajectory, then we apply it to a softball. But a bullet doesn't have seams. Could the bullet spinning ball with its seams rotating in one direction combined with the drop from gravity actually provide an air imbalance causing it to veer toward one side?
Nice. Never thought of the football, nose pointing slightly upward when the quarterback releases, then transitioning to nose pointing slightly downward when the receiver catches it. One would think the ball would stay nose up, like an airplane landing.You have to take a deeper look to understand these things. Bullet spin by definition is always oriented in the direction the bullet is traveling, and will keep it on track as long as this remains true. Rather than a bullet use a football. The ball will travel straight as long as the nose remains pointed in the direction of travel. So when the ball passes the top of it's arc and begins to travel downward the axis of spin has to change and point downward into the changing direction of travel, or the bullet spin effect is lost. If the axis of spin remains pointed in the direction that it had when the ball was launched (slightly upward) then as the ball crests and begins to fall more air will hit the bottom of the spinning ball and the Magnus force will begin to have an effect, the ball will curve in the direction of the spin. This is how a 'bullet spin' slider breaks horizontally, with more of the break happening at the end of it's flight as the trajectory turns downward, but the axis of spin remains constant.
That is called a helicopter (at least when it is autorotating).Side note, I wouldn't want to be on a bullet-spinning airplane trying to land.
Share my perspectiveMy view from the prior thread:
At the end of the day, spin has very little to do with the movement of most pitches,
as it’s not what causes the movement. Movement is caused by pressure differences around the ball from rough and smooth surfaces, combined with the pitch angle.
Why? Because laminar flow is more powerful than the magnus effect. Laminar will move a ball without spin. Spin a ball with the opposite laminar force and it isn’t moving the direction you want it to move based on spin. I’ve seen a curve ball demonstrated with proper curve spin and an opposing laminar and it goes more in.
That’s also how a screwball is thrown. Not with spin, but using laminar and seam orientation.
Just like HD cameras showed that high-end pitchers weren’t using HE, newer technology is also now showing that most pitchers aren’t spinning balls to make them move (outside of drops), it’s slight changes in release angle and laminar flow.
Like the cross reference about movement in other sports!And yes, much more study had been done in cricket than softball.
little fun here...It got me wondering if pitchers even notice they are giving something for the batter to look at
Not saying this to be snarky but..... ?Oklahoma is on point with hitting everything ?because Oklahoma was on point hitting pitches with gyro spin
Slow motion and at speed are very different.(the highlight reels in slow motion show the dot on the ball very well).
I noticed the black circle on the back of number of bullet spin pitches. Since the horseshoes on a ball are not symmetrically opposed if you look at a bullet spin pitch and don't see the dot on the back that doesn't mean that it is showing to the hitter. It could be presenting to the hitter though, you would think that catchers would notice this and bring it to someone's attention, right Rad?providing a nice black target in the middle of a bright yellow ball.
I like to sit behind the catcher at the D1 games I go to and lo and behold some of the slow motion video I took, you can see a black dot coming at the catcher.I noticed the black circle on the back of number of bullet spin pitches. Since the horseshoes on a ball are not symmetrically opposed if you look at a bullet spin pitch and don't see the dot on the back that doesn't mean that it is showing to the hitter. It could be presenting to the hitter though, you would think that catchers would notice this and bring it to someone's attention, right Rad?